Discussions with Rome

Discussions with Rome - Updated

JMJ

As most people who follow the SSPX would know, there were some meetings between Cardinal Mueller, Cardinal Brandmueller, and Bishop Schneider at various houses of the SSPX.

Aside from that there has been little reported on progress or lack thereof in the media.

Cardinal Mueller has given an interview in which he had the following to say (Source: Rorate Caeli):

Exclusive: Cardinal Müller in an interview with katholisch.de [excerpt]
Question: It has been strikingly quiet recently regarding the Society of Saint Pius X. Are the attempts to find an agreement suspended or postponed?
Mueller: Regarding this question, there is no substantial new development. The Holy Father wishes that we keep trying: “con tenacia e pazienza” – “with decisiveness and patience.” The precondition for a full reconciliation is the signing of a doctrinal preamble in order to guarantee a full agreement in the essential questions of the Faith. In the past months, there were encounters of different ways which are meant to strengthen the mutual trust.
[Translation kindly provided by Maike Hickson.]

We find two interesting aspects to this response.

The first of which is that the word 'reconciliation' is used (assuming a correct translation), the 'full communion' phrase remains absent.

The second of which is "guarantee a full agreement in the essential questions of the Faith". I really want to know where the SSPX has deviated on "essential questions of the Faith". Perhaps, when this 'question' is settled, it will settle the 'question' for the rest of the Church.

While feverish minds will jump to a large number of conclusions, I propose the following conclusions that are based on fact:

There is currently no agreement between Rome and the SSPX.
Assuming the 'preamble' mentioned is the same one that Bishop Fellay refused to sign in 2012, the discussions between Rome and the SSPX are at an impasse.

P^3

Updated:

Angelqueen had a little more information:

Regarding talks with the SSPX, the cardinal said there are no “major updates,” but the talks continue. He said that Pope Francis has directed the CDF to continue, with “tenacity and patience,” to seek ways to reconcile the traditionalist group with the Holy See.

Question: It has been strikingly quiet recently regarding the Society of Saint Pius X. Are the attempts to find an agreement suspended or postponed?

Mueller: Regarding this question, there is no substantial new development. The Holy Father wishes that we keep trying: “con tenacia e pazienza” – “with decisiveness and patience.” The precondition for a full reconciliation is the signing of a doctrinal preamble in order to guarantee a full agreement in the essential questions of the Faith. In the past months, there were encounters of different ways which are meant to strengthen the mutual trust. – Translation by Maike Hickson of only that question from the Katholisch.de interview at Rorate Caeli

Comments

Auctorem Fidei

Can the SSPX be right about the Novus Ordo? Revision: Feb 11, 2013 On another web forum, I was engaged in a rather heated discussion about the documents of Vatican II.

Morning and Evening and other sundry Prayers

+ JMJ Along the theme of P^3 (Prayer, Penance, Patience), and for my own reference ... here is a collection of Morning and Evening prayers from the Ideal Daily Missal along with some additional prayers. In this crisis of the Church, I do not think it is possible to do too much prayer, penance and have patience. P^3

Comparision of the Tridentine, Cranmer and Novus Ordo Masses

+ JMJ I downloaded the comparison that was linked in the previous article on the mass (here) . ... a very good reference! P^3 From: Whispers of Restoration (available at this link) . CHARTING LITURGICAL CHANGE Comparing the 1962 Ordinary of the Roman Mass to changes made during the Anglican Schism; Compared in turn to changes adopted in the creation of Pope Paul VI’s Mass in 1969 The chart on the reverse is a concise comparison of certain ritual differences between three historical rites for the celebration of the Catholic Mass Vetus Ordo: “Old Order,” the Roman Rite of Mass as contained in the 1962 Missal, often referred to as the “Traditional Latin Mass.”The Ordinary of this Mass is that of Pope St. Pius V (1570) following the Council of Trent (1545-63), hence the occasional moniker “Tridentine Mass.” However, Trent only consolidated and codified the Roman Rite already in use at that time; its essential form dates to Pope St. Gregory the Great (+604), in whose time the R

What the heck is a congregation of "Pontifical Right"

+ JMJ In a discussion with a friend the question occurred to me that I didn't actually know was is involved in being a religious order of 'pontifical right'. I had a vague notion that this meant they reported to Rome as opposed to the local diocese. I'm also aware that, according to the accounts I have heard, the Archbishop received 'praise' and the written direction to incardinate priests directly into the SSPX. This is interesting because it implies that the SSPX priests were no longer required to incardinate in the local diocese but in the SSPX. This is something that belongs to an order of 'pontifical right'. Anyway here's some definitions: Di diritto pontificio is the Italian term for “of pontifical right” . It is given to the ecclesiastical institutions (the religious and secular institutes, societies of apostolic life) either created by the Holy See or approved by it with the formal decree, known by its Latin name, Decretu

Catholic Culture - The Edgar Schein Model Analysis of the Pre and Post Conciliar Culture

+ JMJ So ... I was thinking ... I've used Edgar Schein's (RIP) organizational cultural model (link ) in my research ... why not apply it in a comparison between the Catholic Organizational Culture - PRE and POST Second Vatican Culture? Of course, this will be from my own perspective, I'm certain that others will think differently. 😁 Also, apologies for a rather long article. Graphic: https://mutomorro.com/edgar-scheins-culture-model/ Below is a quick mapping of the cultural factors that I could think of. Since the Church is vast and composed of millions of Souls, it is necessarily a limited cultural map. Yet, I think it will still be useful to assess what has changed since the Second Vatican Council. Additional Reading: 5 enduring management ideas from MIT Sloan’s Edgar Schein | MIT Sloan Artifacts Artifacts are tangible and observable aspects of the culture being examined. All organizations have them. Walmart has their Walmart chant, Charismatics have their spe

Tradicat

Search This Blog