Skip to main content

The 'Resistance' and Catholic Obedience (Updated)

+
JMJ


It would appear that my articles on obedience have been noticed by some members of the 'resistance' and prompted a reply  by Fr. Edward MacDonald, or one of his followers. It was posted on a resistance blog ... here's some key excerpts:

  1. "The Catholic principle is laid out as follows:
  2. The person issuing the command is in a position of authority over the inferior
  3. The command is within the scope of the superior's authority
  4. The command does not require the inferior to sin, either in the immediate or proximate case.
  5. If the above conditions are met then the person has an obligation to obey. Disobedience in this case is sinful.
  6. Whereas if #3 is lacking (sinful command) then the person has an obligation to disobey
  7. Whereas if #1 or #2 is lacking the person practice greater virtue in obeying a command that is not obligatory.
This is from a different article rather than the full series on St. Thomas.  I've added a link at the end of this post.
The problem with Tradicat's understanding with Aquinas' view of 'perfect' obedience is he did not clarify nor expound by what he meant 'the superior requiring the inferior to sin' viz. No. 3 of the above quote. My question then would be, if a boss in a company, for example, asked his female staff after work to have some drinks with him in his place, would it fall under his notion of "perfect obedience" for the female staff to comply since the command is not evil and sinful per se? Another question, if an evil yet lawful superior ordered his inferior not to consecrate some individuals as bishops, would it be "obligatory obedience" for the bishop to obey since the command is not evil and sinful per se?
First thought: I shouldn't have to explain what it would mean to sin ... I assumed that Catholics would understand the concept.  Anyway I did answer that question on this article: here.

As my American friends would say: "Duh!"
I believe herein lies the fissure of his critique of the 'Resistance'. In my example above, while it is true that the female staff may disobey his boss' advances without committing sin on the grounds that his authority ends after work and those things unrelated to the job. It may not be classified as "perfect obedience" but she has obeyed her boss in everything within his authority ("obligatory obedience"). But the same cannot be said with the bishop who was directed by his superior viz. the Pope (i.e. "St." John Paul II) who lawfully ordered Archbishop Lefebvre not to consecrate certain individuals as bishops - since the Supreme Pontiff has the full authority to command an Archbishop not to consecrate anyone. Such a command is not intrinsically evil? Not consecrating bishops by itself is not bad! Hence, using Tradicat's logic here will force us to concede that Archbishop Lefebvre "committed" mortal sin when he disobeyed the Pope! I am not sure if the said blogger would want to go down that path (since he keeps claiming that he is 'in line' with the saintly Archbishop).
Wow, haven't seen this argument for a while.  Actually, they need to read the full article series because I did respond to this objection:

That the Archbishop believed it would have been a dereliction of duty to not provide for the continuance of the Society is clear. So subjectively, he would have been obligated to disobey. Now is there an objective basis for this conclusion? Episcopal Duty: Archbishop Lefebvre had a duty, as a bishop, "preserving the true faith and a high moral tone among the people" (Source: Catholic Encyclopedia). In 1988, what were the objective conditions in the Church?

  • A Pope promoting syncretism (ie: Assisi),
  • A curial response to the Archbishop's Dubia, which (if memory serves) didn't respond to the questions but offered answers to what the curia thought he was asking.
  • A general orientation against what the Church has always taught in both doctrine / dogma and liturgy.
  • Reliance upon a non-SSPX bishop for ordinations, confirmations etc, who was hostile to everything the SSPX represented.
  • The faithful who relied upon the congregation (SSPX) to provide a refuge from the heresy running amok and unchecked within the Catholic Church.
  • Ordaining one bishop would leave a single point of failure for the SSPX.
  • His failing health.
[Update: On reading this I realised that I forgot to include the two compromises that had been asked after signing the protocol of 1988.  Specifically, welcoming the Novus Ordo Missae in St. Nicholas de Chardonnet which represented a compromise.  I will be posting some additional records from the SSPX shortly.] 
Objectively, if the Archbishop died without leaving bishops to provide the sacraments reliant upon the episcopal character, then he would have neglected his duty as a Catholic Bishop. Why? Among other things, those people who rely upon the SSPX for the sacraments etc would have been forced to rely upon the local ordinaries - who were one of the factors creating the crisis to begin with!  

This would be a sin.

I don't think anyone would believe things have gotten better since 1988.

Based on this analysis (cursory as it may be), the Archbishop did the right thing by disobeying Pope St. John Paul II. The Pope was negligent in his duty and that meant that the Archbishop had to choose between a Pope and God.

He chose well.


So, instead of proving me incorrect or mistaken, the 'resistance' just keeps on proving my point, they really are grasping at straws in order to justify their position.  So ... just who is following the Catholic Truth?  Who is following the path of Archbishop Lefebvre?

P^3
References Cited by 'Resistance'


Too bad they didn't reference the whole series where I did a deep dive into St. Thomas' teaching on obedience:

Comments

Popular posts from this blog

Comparision of the Tridentine, Cranmer and Novus Ordo Masses

+ JMJ I downloaded the comparison that was linked in the previous article on the mass (here) . ... a very good reference! P^3 From: Whispers of Restoration (available at this link) . CHARTING LITURGICAL CHANGE Comparing the 1962 Ordinary of the Roman Mass to changes made during the Anglican Schism; Compared in turn to changes adopted in the creation of Pope Paul VI’s Mass in 1969 The chart on the reverse is a concise comparison of certain ritual differences between three historical rites for the celebration of the Catholic Mass Vetus Ordo: “Old Order,” the Roman Rite of Mass as contained in the 1962 Missal, often referred to as the “Traditional Latin Mass.”The Ordinary of this Mass is that of Pope St. Pius V (1570) following the Council of Trent (1545-63), hence the occasional moniker “Tridentine Mass.” However, Trent only consolidated and codified the Roman Rite already in use at that time; its essential form dates to Pope St. Gregory the Great (+604), in whose time the R...

SSPX and the Resistance - A Comparison Of Ecclesiology

Shining the light of Church Teaching on the doctrinal positions of the SSPX and the Resistance. Principles are guides used to aid in decision making.  It stands to reason that bad principles will lead to bad decisions. The recent interactions between Rome and the SSPX has challenged a number of closely held cultural assumptions of people in both sides of the disagreement. This has resulted in cultural skirmishes in both Rome and the SSPX. Since it is the smaller of the two, the skirmishes have been more evident within the SSPX.  The cultural fault-line that Bishop Fellay crossed appears to be linked to two points of Catholic Doctrine: Ecclesiology and Obedience.  The cultural difference of view points is strong enough that it has resulted in the expulsion of a number of members.  It should also be noted that some other priests expelled since the beginning of the latest interactions (starting in 2000) held the same view points and have joined with the l...

If Pope Francis is bad - what about Pope St. John Paul II et al?

+ JMJ So here we are on the apparent cusp of yet another post conciliar Papal canonization. This time we have Pope's John-Paul I and Paul VI canonizations to 'look forward' to. This follows, obviously, on the heels of Pope St. John Paul II's canonization? So the first question that I usually encounter is: How is it possible, keeping in mind the doctrine on infallibility of canonizations (note doctrine not dogma), that Pope St. John Paul II is a Saint? First, what does it mean???  According to the doctrine of dogmatic facts - it is the universal opinion of Theologians that canonizations are infallible.  It means that they enjoy the beatific vision.  ... that's it.  That is the doctrine and it is at the level of universal opinion of theologians.  It is called a 'dogmatic fact'. That they made mistakes is obvious.  That the miracles seem to not be very miraculous is also a bit of an issue. Here's something to consider: The rush that surrou...

Spiritual Journey Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre - Extracts

+ JMJ I have posted these two chapters to provide context for the quote of: It is, therefore, a strict duty for every priest wanting to remain Catholic to separate himself from this Conciliar Church for as long as it does not rediscover the Tradition of the Church and of the Catholic Faith. P^3 Courtesy of SSPX.ca Chapter II The Perfections of God We ought to remember during this entire contemplation of God that we must apply all that is said of God to Our Lord Jesus Christ, Who is God. We cannot separate Jesus Christ from God. We cannot separate the Christian religion from Jesus Christ, Who is God, and we must affirm and believe that only the Catholic religion is the Christian religion. These affirmations have, as a result, inescapable conclusions that no ecclesiastic authority can contest: outside of Jesus Christ and the Catholic religion, that is, outsi...

Dogmas of the Catholic Faith (de fide) - Expanded Listing: Answer for Reader

 + JMJ  A reader asked the following question in the 2015 version of the article on the Dogmas of the Catholic Faith (link) : 117: "In the state of fallen nature it is morally impossible for man without Supernatural Revelation, to know easily, with absolute certainty and without admixture of error, all religious and moral truths of the natural order." Where can you find this in the documents of the Church? ( Link to comment )  Here's the reference from Ott: The citation that Ott provided was Denzinger 1786 and the source document is Dogmatic Consitution Concerning the Faith from the First Vatican Council (Papal Encyclicals - link) : Chapter 2 On Revelation, Article 3: It is indeed thanks to this divine revelation , that those matters concerning God, which are not of themselves beyond the scope of human reason, can, even in the present state of the human race, be known by everyone, without difficulty, with firm certitude and with no intermingling of error. Here's ...