Skip to main content

A Look Back Archbishop Lefebvre - September 22, 1988

+
JMJ

An unknown anonymous poster posted the following:
I think that many of those that left us to rejoin Rome, (isn’t that right,) did not rightly understand what liberalism is and how the Roman authorities at the moment, since the Council in particular, are infested with these errors. They did not understand. If they had understood, they would have fled, they would have avoided, they would have stayed with us. But they do not want to believe these errors. This is serious because by moving closer to these authorities, one is necessarily contaminated. These authorities are imbued with these principles, live with these principles – these principles of liberalism. Inevitably, they act in conformity with their ideas. And therefore, they can only have relations with us. They begin to have relations with us – relations which little by little impose these ideas on us, since they are the authorities. They are the authorities and we are the subordinates, so they impose these ideas on us. It is impossible otherwise. As long as they do not rid themselves of these errors – these errors of liberalism and modernism – there is no way we can come to an agreement with them. It is not possible. We cannot approach them because immediately we have to submit to their orientations. (Archbishop Lefebvre September 22, 1988)

This is interesting because ... it is before other statements made by Archbishop Lefebvre that indicate otherwise.

Lord save us from the confirmation bias of the 'resistors'.

P^3

PS. Would be nice if there was a reference from where this came from ...

Comments

  1. Google it . You will find it was said by Archbsp. Lefebvre during a retreat he gave in Sept 1988.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I did and all I found was the 'resistance' quotes without context.

      Delete
  2. Fideliter Nov Dec 1988

    Archbishop Lefebvre: We do not have the same outlook on a reconciliation. Cardinal Ratzinger sees it as reducing us, bringing us back to Vatican II. We see it as a return of Rome to Tradition. We don’t agree; it is a dialogue of death. I can’t speak much of the future, mine is behind me, but if I live a little while, supposing that Rome calls for a renewed dialogue, then, I will put conditions. I shall not accept being in the position where I was put during the dialogue. No more.

    I will place the discussion at the doctrinal level: “Do you agree with the great encyclicals of all the popes who preceded you? Do you agree with Quanta Cura of Pius IX, Immortale Dei and Libertas of Leo XIII, Pascendi Gregis of Pius X, Quas Primas of Pius XI, Humani Generis of Pius XII? Are you in full communion with these Popes and their teachings? Do you still accept the entire Anti-Modernist Oath? Are you in favor of the social reign of Our Lord Jesus Christ? If you do not accept the doctrine of your predecessors, it is useless to talk! As long as you do not accept the correction of the Council, in consideration of the doctrine of these Popes, your predecessors, no dialogue is possible. It is useless.”

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Interesting - I have a link on one of my timelines ... this bit "As long as you do not accept the correction of the Council, in consideration of the doctrine of these Popes, your predecessors, no dialogue is possible. It is useless.” is interesting as a correction starts with not requiring acceptance of the council.

      Anyway, the context of this quotation needs to be restored - for example the 1989 and 1990 interviews are a good spot. Also the other aspects of what happened right before the consecrations would be useful.

      Without the context one could mistakenly believe that the SSPX must throw away the Catholic principle of obedience in order to remain true to Archibishop Lefebvre.

      Fortunately, that is not the case.

      P^3

      Delete

Post a Comment

Popular posts from this blog

SSPX and the Resistance - A Comparison Of Ecclesiology

Shining the light of Church Teaching on the doctrinal positions of the SSPX and the Resistance. Principles are guides used to aid in decision making.  It stands to reason that bad principles will lead to bad decisions. The recent interactions between Rome and the SSPX has challenged a number of closely held cultural assumptions of people in both sides of the disagreement. This has resulted in cultural skirmishes in both Rome and the SSPX. Since it is the smaller of the two, the skirmishes have been more evident within the SSPX.  The cultural fault-line that Bishop Fellay crossed appears to be linked to two points of Catholic Doctrine: Ecclesiology and Obedience.  The cultural difference of view points is strong enough that it has resulted in the expulsion of a number of members.  It should also be noted that some other priests expelled since the beginning of the latest interactions (starting in 2000) held the same view points and have joined with the l...

Magisterium and Levels of Assent

+ JMJ Understanding the levels of assent to be given to the teachings of the Church is a critical success factor in walking the knife's edge during this crisis of the Church.  The levels of assent are generally associated with the theological grades of certainty, which are not surprisingly mirrored by the censures for contravening the teachings of the various levels.

Morning and Evening and other sundry Prayers

+ JMJ Along the theme of P^3 (Prayer, Penance, Patience), and for my own reference ... here is a collection of Morning and Evening prayers from the Ideal Daily Missal along with some additional prayers. In this crisis of the Church, I do not think it is possible to do too much prayer, penance and have patience. P^3

De Fide Teachings of the Catholic Church (Updated)

+ JMJ  Update: I was reviewing Ott's work directly and noted that some of the Teachings are De Fide while others are different levels of authority (such as Sent Certa etc).  So please refer to Ott for the actual classification). Posts Listing the Dogmas of the Catholic Church Dogmas of the Catholic Faith (de fide) - Expanded Listing: Answer for Reader (Oct 2022) Updated List of Teachings of the Catholic Church (Oct 2021) *** Dogmas of the Catholic Faith (Oct 2015) De Fide teaching of the Catholic Church (Apr 2013)           *** Latest version  

Open Letter to Cardinal Gantin - July 6, 1988

There has been some discussion (read lots) about the term 'Conciliar Church'. I have posted this letter written by the Superior General and District Superiors of the SSPX after the 1988 Consecrations. Of particular interest is that the 'Conciliar Church' being referred to as a system. My paraphrase would be that the SSPX regards the 'conciliar Church' as an error within the Church. Source Open Letter to Cardinal Gantin Prefect of the Congregation for Bishops