Skip to main content

A Look Back Archbishop Lefebvre - September 22, 1988

+
JMJ

An unknown anonymous poster posted the following:
I think that many of those that left us to rejoin Rome, (isn’t that right,) did not rightly understand what liberalism is and how the Roman authorities at the moment, since the Council in particular, are infested with these errors. They did not understand. If they had understood, they would have fled, they would have avoided, they would have stayed with us. But they do not want to believe these errors. This is serious because by moving closer to these authorities, one is necessarily contaminated. These authorities are imbued with these principles, live with these principles – these principles of liberalism. Inevitably, they act in conformity with their ideas. And therefore, they can only have relations with us. They begin to have relations with us – relations which little by little impose these ideas on us, since they are the authorities. They are the authorities and we are the subordinates, so they impose these ideas on us. It is impossible otherwise. As long as they do not rid themselves of these errors – these errors of liberalism and modernism – there is no way we can come to an agreement with them. It is not possible. We cannot approach them because immediately we have to submit to their orientations. (Archbishop Lefebvre September 22, 1988)

This is interesting because ... it is before other statements made by Archbishop Lefebvre that indicate otherwise.

Lord save us from the confirmation bias of the 'resistors'.

P^3

PS. Would be nice if there was a reference from where this came from ...

Comments

  1. Google it . You will find it was said by Archbsp. Lefebvre during a retreat he gave in Sept 1988.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I did and all I found was the 'resistance' quotes without context.

      Delete
  2. Fideliter Nov Dec 1988

    Archbishop Lefebvre: We do not have the same outlook on a reconciliation. Cardinal Ratzinger sees it as reducing us, bringing us back to Vatican II. We see it as a return of Rome to Tradition. We don’t agree; it is a dialogue of death. I can’t speak much of the future, mine is behind me, but if I live a little while, supposing that Rome calls for a renewed dialogue, then, I will put conditions. I shall not accept being in the position where I was put during the dialogue. No more.

    I will place the discussion at the doctrinal level: “Do you agree with the great encyclicals of all the popes who preceded you? Do you agree with Quanta Cura of Pius IX, Immortale Dei and Libertas of Leo XIII, Pascendi Gregis of Pius X, Quas Primas of Pius XI, Humani Generis of Pius XII? Are you in full communion with these Popes and their teachings? Do you still accept the entire Anti-Modernist Oath? Are you in favor of the social reign of Our Lord Jesus Christ? If you do not accept the doctrine of your predecessors, it is useless to talk! As long as you do not accept the correction of the Council, in consideration of the doctrine of these Popes, your predecessors, no dialogue is possible. It is useless.”

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Interesting - I have a link on one of my timelines ... this bit "As long as you do not accept the correction of the Council, in consideration of the doctrine of these Popes, your predecessors, no dialogue is possible. It is useless.” is interesting as a correction starts with not requiring acceptance of the council.

      Anyway, the context of this quotation needs to be restored - for example the 1989 and 1990 interviews are a good spot. Also the other aspects of what happened right before the consecrations would be useful.

      Without the context one could mistakenly believe that the SSPX must throw away the Catholic principle of obedience in order to remain true to Archibishop Lefebvre.

      Fortunately, that is not the case.

      P^3

      Delete

Post a Comment

Popular posts from this blog

SSPX and the Resistance - A Comparison Of Ecclesiology

Shining the light of Church Teaching on the doctrinal positions of the SSPX and the Resistance. Principles are guides used to aid in decision making.  It stands to reason that bad principles will lead to bad decisions. The recent interactions between Rome and the SSPX has challenged a number of closely held cultural assumptions of people in both sides of the disagreement. This has resulted in cultural skirmishes in both Rome and the SSPX. Since it is the smaller of the two, the skirmishes have been more evident within the SSPX.  The cultural fault-line that Bishop Fellay crossed appears to be linked to two points of Catholic Doctrine: Ecclesiology and Obedience.  The cultural difference of view points is strong enough that it has resulted in the expulsion of a number of members.  It should also be noted that some other priests expelled since the beginning of the latest interactions (starting in 2000) held the same view points and have joined with the l...

News Roundup: April 13, 2025

 + JMJ I'm writing this on April 13th since it's Holy Week and I wanted to get it out now. Trends that I've noticed ... Trump just made a big mistake, one that China will capitalize on over the next few weeks if not decades. The USA's short political cycle leads to short-term thinking, a problem China doesn't have with its decades long leadership cycle.  My point is that this week China matched Trump's escalated tariffs and then dropped a few bombs: First, they announced they wouldn't be matching Trump's tariffs any further.  The analysts are saying that it makes no difference because the current level of tariffs means that they countries have cut off economic ties.  So basically, Trump can go ahead and fulfill his threat of increased tariffs, but at this point the sting has been removed. They publicly called out Trump's tariffs as a joke, insulted him and went on bolstering their expanding trade relations. Capitalizing on their new found friends fro...

Cathinfo and the 'resistance' perspective (updated with response to comment)

+ JMJ Matthew, the owner of Cathinfo - a resistance forum has posted a response to a person that indicated his reasons for continuing to go to the SSPX.

Morning and Evening and other sundry Prayers

+ JMJ Along the theme of P^3 (Prayer, Penance, Patience), and for my own reference ... here is a collection of Morning and Evening prayers from the Ideal Daily Missal along with some additional prayers. In this crisis of the Church, I do not think it is possible to do too much prayer, penance and have patience. P^3

Credidimus Caritati - French Blog - Even in the Crisis: Gentleness, Kindness, Patience and Forebearance - Updated

+ JMJ Reblogged For those readers who understand french or who can tolerate a google translation, the blog Credidmus Caritati was recently recommended to me by a French SSPX priest. The blog "focuses on the spiritual legacy of Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre (1905-1991) whose episcopal motto was Credidimus caritati (We believed in charity)." As such the articles focus on the sermons that have a spiritual aspect to them. This is crucial in this long crisis of the Church as without a solid spiritual life as foundation, many crumble under the pressure of the attacks of the world, flesh and devil. P^3 Prayer Penance Patience