Cathinfo and the 'resistance' perspective (updated with response to comment)

JMJ

Matthew, the owner of Cathinfo - a resistance forum has posted a response to a person that indicated his reasons for continuing to go to the SSPX.

Matthew's response is a timely reminder of some of the pitfalls that exist in departing from Catholic Dogma, Doctrine, Principles and Discipline. There's a lot of FUD in the post, but I will add some of the more relevant passages below with my comments:

That is why I have to say the decision is one of PRUDENCE, not FAITH or DOGMA. If it was a matter of Faith, then those who chose wrongly would literally be going to hell. But such is not the case. It's about prudence -- a subjective judgment we make based on the information we have, and our own precise situation.

I obviously disagree. The decision depends on who has compromised in Catholic Dogma, Doctrine, Principles and Discipline. So the decision is about Faith and Dogma as well as Prudence. Based on their writing we know that the sedevacantists are primarily compromised on Dogma and Doctrine. We know that the 'resistance' is primarily compromised on Doctrine, Principles.

The SSPX is a monolithic, multi-national corporation. But that doesn't mean that its priests all participate in one "hive mind" or some nonsense like that. They are all individual souls. Some are liberal, and some are not. But they are all loyal to the Monster at this time, and they all have to be subject to it, following its laws and directives, and that is the problem with SSPX chapels.

Well this was quite the screed, laws and directives are how order is maintained in an organization. Otherwise you simply have anarchy, but isn't that the modus operandi of the 'resistance'? Everyone doing what they want to do, when they want to do it, and how they want to do it. I would have recognized the 'resistance' for what it was even if I hadn't been studying Catholic Doctrine for 5 years before they had their epiphany. Simply put, I witnessed an SSPX priest 'lose it' because of obedience. This was a decade before the 'resistance' cobbled together all the malecontents who either left or were expelled from the SSPX since 2000.

Anyway, I'll take a "monolithic, multi-national" Catholic Order that hasn't compromised on Dogma, Doctrine, Principles and Discipline any day of the year over a 'loose association' of former members of the SSPX.

Now on with Matthews thoughts ...

Even if you had the Cure of Ars offering daily Mass at your SSPX chapel, which happened to be built like a Cathedral, there is still the problem that your SSPX chapel is part of the SSPX Corporation with its liberal-ruled headquarters in Menzingen. You are going to have visits from the District Superior, etc. who will tell you that Vatican II isn't so bad, that we are excessive in our resistance to Vatican II, that we need to be more moderate, that Rome isn't so bad, etc.

Well, I wonder if that is what he heard or what was actually said. Because Matthew, like all humans, will filter the information he receives to support his beliefs.

Those things were all said recently at my SSPX chapel in San Antonio, by Fr. Wegner. I'm not going to expose my children to priests uttering such lies. Vatican II is heretical and I want no part of it. It IS a superheresy, the biggest crisis to ever befall the Church. I am Traditional Catholic, the son of Traditional Catholics, and was raised Traditional Catholic from birth. The only way to react to Modernism/Vatican II/Conciliar Church is COMPLETE ABSTINENCE, complete aloofness. Everything else is dangerous compromise, supping with the devil.

I think that Matthew has forgotten what heresy really is and the doctrine of the indefectibility of the Catholic Church. He has also forgotten (if he ever knew) the ways in which you can be schismatic. Also if the Pope calls and you aren't schismatic or sedevacantist, are you going to answer? A Catholic would, but it appears the Matthew would not. What does this lead us to conclude about Matthews beliefs???

When someone tries to tone down my resistance and hatred for Vatican II, a huge alarm goes off and I put up a wall of separation.

Well that is consistent with the model I have below.

I also suppose that Matthew has forgotten what the SSPX has always held about the documents of the Second Vatican Council:

Traditional: Accept
Ambiguous: Accept with traditional interpretation
Contradicting prior doctrine: Reject and request correction.

P^3

Update and Response to Comment

Mary's Vagabond (MV for short) left a comment to an old post that obviously trigger him or her. I took a look at their blog and suspect that they are either Sedevacantist or someone who doesn't believe in the doctrine of baptism of desire.

On to the comment ...

Mary's Vagabond commented on "Cathinfo and the 'resistance' perspective"

Sspx doesn't believe in the dogma of Papal infallibility, or of the Papacy. They don't believe in doctrine of infallibility of canonizations, rehashing it to make it dependent on a process that's itself fallible and unnecessary - they are all over the place in discipline - some districts use some year of missal others another.

Tradicat: First, based on my study and understanding of the Dogma of Papal Infallibility, the Papcy and the doctrine regarding what actually is infallible in a canonization. I have to disagree with MV.
Tradicat: Rearding the use of different editions of missals - I am unaware of that. Every place I have travelled to has used the 1963 missal except in the early day (i.e. 40+ years ago) when the priests I knew were happy to have any missal.

Their only principle is churning out half baked express mail order 'priests' and sending them to poach in the jurisdictions of those they consider legitimate (Conciliar ) bishops without so much as a by-your - leave (and the author mentions 'anarchy/order /hierarchy' with a straight face, lol).

Tradicat: This is a complete hodge podge. I've dealt with 'modern priests' and have found the 'quality' of training - particularly in the past couple of decades - to be superiour.
Tradicat: With regards to impinging upon the legitimate jurisdiction of the local ordinary. That's weird. In my experience the SSPX goes where the local bishop doesn't allow the Tridentine Mass. In short, they go where the people are asking them to go.

In short, compromised on everything you listed including morals, less better than even the bogus Ordo with 6% pederasts against their two. It's just the left wing of the personality cult of one archbishop, blind leading blind, of which McDevitt is just the 'right wing'.

Tradicat: Aah, 'bogus ordo' now we see where they come from. It isn't a Diocesan Mass-Goer, nor an SSPX. Sounds like a Sedevacantist or "resistor".

This post is in a dream world.

Tradicat: If MV is a 'resistor' I would refer him/her to this post: Hey "Resistors", I'm still waiting...

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+ JMJ I have sometimes been criticized for including 'St' as a title for Pope John Paul II et al. I've given my reasons here in a discussion with Alex Long. The question is one of prudence in discussions with ntCatholics and in some cases with tCatholics. In discussions with: ntCatholics, I will use the title in order to continue the discussion and help them arrive at a realistic understanding of the crisis of the Church. tCatholics, I will use the title in order to broaden their perspective on the doctrine of dogmatic facts. This broader perspective is, in my opinion, essential maintaining a realistic understanding of the crisis of the Church. So from a doctrinal position, I have written the article Dogmatic Fact of Fancy and includes a reference on canonizations. Now, I know the position of the SSPX is that the canonizations are doubtful (see references below) and I also know of at least one non-SSPX theologian who agrees with the level of doubt du...

LynneNovember 28, 2017 at 8:26 AM
If he's not going to expose his children to the 'horrifying' things that an SSPX priest says about Vat II, it's good that he leaves the SSPX chapel he currently goes to. It's hypocritical to go to a Mass when you don't respect the priest(s) saying the Mass. And Cathinfo is a hateful place. I don't know why anyone would waste their time there.
Mary's VagabondOctober 21, 2024 at 3:29 AM
Sspx doesn't believe in the dogma of Papal infallibility, or of the Papacy. They don't believe in doctrine of infallibility of canonizations, rehashing it to make it dependent on a process that's itself fallible and unnecessary - they are all over the place in discipline - some districts use some year of missal others another. Their only principle is churning out half baked express mail order 'priests' and sending them to poach in the jurisdictions of those they consider legitimate (Conciliar ) bishops without so much as a by-your - leave (and the author mentions 'anarchy/order /hierarchy' with a straight face, lol). In short, compromised on everything you listed including morals, less better than even the bogus Ordo with 6% pederasts against their two. It's just the left wing of the personality cult of one archbishop, blind leading blind, of which McDevitt is just the 'right wing'. This post is in a dream world.

Tradicat

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