Skip to main content

Fruits of Vatican II - Part 1 Ordinations

+
JMJ

We know from Vatican 1 (Trent vs Vatican II) what fruits V2 did not produce.  It's probably a good idea to take a look at some of the fruits and effects of Vatican II.

The first that comes to mind is the New Mass, but really I think it is the secondary fruit.

The primary fruit was the collapse of Catholicism that occurred immediately after the close of the council. On this topic one of my opponents pointed out that correlation does not indicate a cause.

This is true.

There may have been other events that caused the free-fall.  However, my first premis is that something happened in 1965 and the key element in the life of the Church is the Second Vatican Council.  The correlation is strong in key metrics of the life of the Church.  After 50+ years there are now other ways to assess the validity of the claim that the cultural changes wrought by Vatican II are causal.



First, statistics can be misleading, particularly if you just look at one metric without its context.

A researcher at The Center for Applied Research in the Apostolate (CARA) gave me a key insight: In looking at the stats, year over year growth in Traditionalist organizations is skewed due to the size. In order to get a better perspective, it is necessary to compare the stats to the pool of people. In essence a per-capita type of analysis.

With that in mind, I reviewed available data from the UK, US and 'World'. The data from the UK was particularly valuable as it goes back much further than the other stats.

The effects of two world wars are clearly evident ... and then we have the effect of the third world war - Vatican II.

Aside from the oscillation, it does provide some assurance that the trends in England are representative of the general trend in the Church.

The graph below shows the trend from England and Wales with the typical growth up to V2 followed by the free-fall experienced after 1965.



Why is this important?  The ordinations vs the size of the pool of people from which the ordinands were drawn is an indication of the vitality of the environment (cultural) from which they emerged.

There are a myriad of factors, but the researcher at Cara made an interesting note.  While the attrition rate of both Traditional and 'Modern' Catholic seminaries is about the same (50%), many more young men enter the former than the latter seminaries. One Cara research article (reference escapes me) noted that those religious orders that follow their rule, wear their habit, live in community have a strong identity are growing. Those that lack these facets are dying.

Conclusion, as in business, culture eats process for breakfast, every-time. Meaning, Traditional Catholic Culture has an inherent vitality. I assert that this vitality was discarded as a result of the Second Vatican Council.

Is there proof to substantiate this assertion?

Yes, on two grounds.

First, the 'roaring twenties' were also a time of cultural revolution, during which the Catholic Church maintained its cultural stance.  The effect on the ordinations - nary a blip according to the UK stats.

Second is the cultural experiment of the SSPX, ICK, FSSP, and parishes where the Traditional way of life (liturgical, doctrinal and cultural) is allowed free reign.

These are small petri dishes of pre-conciliar culture. Even the diocese of Lincoln Nebraska is an example of this as they kept the majority of the pre-conciliar cultural artifacts and their rate of ordinations to laity is (I understand) at the American pre-conciliar levels.

Looking at the SSPX ordination stats we find the following:

















Year 1970 1971 1972 1973 1974 1975 1976 1977 1978 1979

Ordinations

3 4 4 2 6 15 15 22














Year 1980 1981 1982 1983 1984 1985 1986 1987 1988 1989

Ordinations 23 18 16 14 21 28 31 32 23 28














Year 1990 1991 1992 1993 1994 1995 1996 1997 1998 1999

Ordinations 15 27 24 25 22 29 22 30 13 20














Year 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009

Ordinations 26 17 22 25 17 19 16 16 14 25














Year 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 Average


Ordinations 25 21 22 19 20 13 19 23 19.37


Note: Some years are estimated from the graph.




























Average laity per ordinand based on reported SSPX faithful:




















300k 15488.22










1M 51627.38






















Conclusion, the SSPX ordination ratio (laity to ordinands) is at or below pre-conciliar levels.

The FSSP has similar stats:


Year200520062007200820092010201120122013201420152016Average
Total7148129128111112151611

I don't have stats on the number of laity served by the FSSP but I would assume that their stats are on par with the SSPX.

When compared with the general trends in the non-Traditional Catholic world, it is clear that there is support for the conclusion that the deviation from the Traditional Culture, fostered by the Second Vatican Council has had a detrimental effect on the vitality of the Church.


More stats to follow . . .

P^3



References


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priest_shortage_in_the_Roman_Catholic_Church
https://faithsurvey.co.uk/catholics-england-and-wales.html
http://www.brin.ac.uk/2012/eighteenth-century-religious-statistics/
https://clivedfield.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/eighteenth-century-statistics-published.pdf
http://www.brin.ac.uk/commentary/drs/1-collected-by-state/
http://cara.georgetown.edu/caraservices/requestedchurchstats.html


Comments

Popular posts from this blog

The Curious Case of Steve Skojec and the Dangers of Deep Diving into the Crisis Sub-Titled: The Failings of Others

 + JMJ It's been a while now since Steve Skojec sold 1P5 and abandoned the Catholic Faith. I've been a 'Trad' since 1982 and in those 40+ years I seen this death-spiral before with a similar end point. It seems that anyone who jumps into the fray unprepared for the enormous task of righting wrongs will, eventually, become discouraged by not the task but the people who surround them.   I remember when Skojec complained of the treatment his family received from a traditional priest.  This seems to have been the start of the end for him. So what can we learn from the likes of Steve Skojec, Michael Voris (maybe?), Louie Verrecchio, Gerry Matatix and other celebrity Catholics? Probably quite a lot about what not to do. First, don't burn out on the crisis?  When you burn out, on work or anything else, little things assume a more greater importance than they are due.   This is one of my 'canary in the coal mine' signals that I've been stretching myself too thin

Morning and Evening and other sundry Prayers

+ JMJ Along the theme of P^3 (Prayer, Penance, Patience), and for my own reference ... here is a collection of Morning and Evening prayers from the Ideal Daily Missal along with some additional prayers. In this crisis of the Church, I do not think it is possible to do too much prayer, penance and have patience. P^3

Thirty Days Prayer to Our Lady -

+ JMJ Providence has cast this prayer in my path twice in the last week.  I decided to post it here in order to have a copy handy. P^3 Prayer Penance Patience Source Intro Prayer With the condition of affairs in the cultural, political and physical world in a state of disarray we enter Lent - Ash Wednesday - February 25th - 2004 - more compelled then ever to pursue, diligently and faithfully, our personal road to holiness. It is a long, difficult path each of us treads, however, we do know the journey can be sweeter and more blessed if we travel it with others. Jesus has told us: "Wherever two or more are gathered in my name, I am with you." And there are many other biblical passages, as well, that urge us to love and help one another. A 'Thirty Day Prayer to the Blessed Virgin Mary ' was said by many Catholics during troubled times in their lives up until Vatican II. While looking through old stored away boxes, I came across a small white prayer b

Kuala Lumpur warns faithful about the SSPX

+ JMJ A couple of humorous perspectives: Chapel of the Sacred Heart of Jesus (SSPX), a chapel not recognized by the Archdiocese I guess they are no longer able to recognize what is authentically Catholic vs inculturated ... :-) The views of the SSPX also dissent from the teachings of the Second Vatican Council This is a little outdated ... I wish I knew what exactly they are talking about and how to square the circle with pre-conciliar Catholic Teaching. and they have serious questions about the order of mass promulgated by Pope St. Paul VI Darn tooting they are serious questions, I'm glad they have admitted that the questions posed by the SSPX are serious and meriting a serious answer. But we already know the answer to one of them:   As for the use of the 1962 Missal as a Forma extraordinaria of the liturgy of the Mass, I would like to draw attention to the fact that this Missal was never juridically abrogated and, consequently, in principle, was always p