Skip to main content

Fruits of Vatican II - Part 1 Ordinations

+
JMJ

We know from Vatican 1 (Trent vs Vatican II) what fruits V2 did not produce.  It's probably a good idea to take a look at some of the fruits and effects of Vatican II.

The first that comes to mind is the New Mass, but really I think it is the secondary fruit.

The primary fruit was the collapse of Catholicism that occurred immediately after the close of the council. On this topic one of my opponents pointed out that correlation does not indicate a cause.

This is true.

There may have been other events that caused the free-fall.  However, my first premis is that something happened in 1965 and the key element in the life of the Church is the Second Vatican Council.  The correlation is strong in key metrics of the life of the Church.  After 50+ years there are now other ways to assess the validity of the claim that the cultural changes wrought by Vatican II are causal.



First, statistics can be misleading, particularly if you just look at one metric without its context.

A researcher at The Center for Applied Research in the Apostolate (CARA) gave me a key insight: In looking at the stats, year over year growth in Traditionalist organizations is skewed due to the size. In order to get a better perspective, it is necessary to compare the stats to the pool of people. In essence a per-capita type of analysis.

With that in mind, I reviewed available data from the UK, US and 'World'. The data from the UK was particularly valuable as it goes back much further than the other stats.

The effects of two world wars are clearly evident ... and then we have the effect of the third world war - Vatican II.

Aside from the oscillation, it does provide some assurance that the trends in England are representative of the general trend in the Church.

The graph below shows the trend from England and Wales with the typical growth up to V2 followed by the free-fall experienced after 1965.



Why is this important?  The ordinations vs the size of the pool of people from which the ordinands were drawn is an indication of the vitality of the environment (cultural) from which they emerged.

There are a myriad of factors, but the researcher at Cara made an interesting note.  While the attrition rate of both Traditional and 'Modern' Catholic seminaries is about the same (50%), many more young men enter the former than the latter seminaries. One Cara research article (reference escapes me) noted that those religious orders that follow their rule, wear their habit, live in community have a strong identity are growing. Those that lack these facets are dying.

Conclusion, as in business, culture eats process for breakfast, every-time. Meaning, Traditional Catholic Culture has an inherent vitality. I assert that this vitality was discarded as a result of the Second Vatican Council.

Is there proof to substantiate this assertion?

Yes, on two grounds.

First, the 'roaring twenties' were also a time of cultural revolution, during which the Catholic Church maintained its cultural stance.  The effect on the ordinations - nary a blip according to the UK stats.

Second is the cultural experiment of the SSPX, ICK, FSSP, and parishes where the Traditional way of life (liturgical, doctrinal and cultural) is allowed free reign.

These are small petri dishes of pre-conciliar culture. Even the diocese of Lincoln Nebraska is an example of this as they kept the majority of the pre-conciliar cultural artifacts and their rate of ordinations to laity is (I understand) at the American pre-conciliar levels.

Looking at the SSPX ordination stats we find the following:

















Year 1970 1971 1972 1973 1974 1975 1976 1977 1978 1979

Ordinations

3 4 4 2 6 15 15 22














Year 1980 1981 1982 1983 1984 1985 1986 1987 1988 1989

Ordinations 23 18 16 14 21 28 31 32 23 28














Year 1990 1991 1992 1993 1994 1995 1996 1997 1998 1999

Ordinations 15 27 24 25 22 29 22 30 13 20














Year 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009

Ordinations 26 17 22 25 17 19 16 16 14 25














Year 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 Average


Ordinations 25 21 22 19 20 13 19 23 19.37


Note: Some years are estimated from the graph.




























Average laity per ordinand based on reported SSPX faithful:




















300k 15488.22










1M 51627.38






















Conclusion, the SSPX ordination ratio (laity to ordinands) is at or below pre-conciliar levels.

The FSSP has similar stats:


Year200520062007200820092010201120122013201420152016Average
Total7148129128111112151611

I don't have stats on the number of laity served by the FSSP but I would assume that their stats are on par with the SSPX.

When compared with the general trends in the non-Traditional Catholic world, it is clear that there is support for the conclusion that the deviation from the Traditional Culture, fostered by the Second Vatican Council has had a detrimental effect on the vitality of the Church.


More stats to follow . . .

P^3



References


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priest_shortage_in_the_Roman_Catholic_Church
https://faithsurvey.co.uk/catholics-england-and-wales.html
http://www.brin.ac.uk/2012/eighteenth-century-religious-statistics/
https://clivedfield.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/eighteenth-century-statistics-published.pdf
http://www.brin.ac.uk/commentary/drs/1-collected-by-state/
http://cara.georgetown.edu/caraservices/requestedchurchstats.html


Comments

Popular posts from this blog

SSPX and the Resistance - A Comparison Of Ecclesiology

Shining the light of Church Teaching on the doctrinal positions of the SSPX and the Resistance. Principles are guides used to aid in decision making.  It stands to reason that bad principles will lead to bad decisions. The recent interactions between Rome and the SSPX has challenged a number of closely held cultural assumptions of people in both sides of the disagreement. This has resulted in cultural skirmishes in both Rome and the SSPX. Since it is the smaller of the two, the skirmishes have been more evident within the SSPX.  The cultural fault-line that Bishop Fellay crossed appears to be linked to two points of Catholic Doctrine: Ecclesiology and Obedience.  The cultural difference of view points is strong enough that it has resulted in the expulsion of a number of members.  It should also be noted that some other priests expelled since the beginning of the latest interactions (starting in 2000) held the same view points and have joined with the l...

Morning and Evening and other sundry Prayers

+ JMJ Along the theme of P^3 (Prayer, Penance, Patience), and for my own reference ... here is a collection of Morning and Evening prayers from the Ideal Daily Missal along with some additional prayers. In this crisis of the Church, I do not think it is possible to do too much prayer, penance and have patience. P^3

Church Militant TV and the SSPX - Again

+ JMJ The old narrative used to be that the SSPX was 'schismatic' and 'excommunicated'. Now the excommunication has been lifted for a number of years and the only ones who think it still has effect are the 'resistors'. That leaves the other opponents of the SSPX with the label 'schismatic'. Make it clear, the conservative Catholics have issues with the SSPX probably because they violate some of their assumptions about the Faith and this crisis of the Church. Church Militant TV is one of these the exists along the Catholic thought spectrum. They like the Traditional Mass but must ensure that they don't get tarred with the same 'schismatic' brush that the liberals use against the SSPX.  So what do they do, they use the same brush against the SSPX. The funny thing is that even when the Church does speak, they don't want to listen and persist in calling the SSPX 'schismatic'. Here's a transcript of the latest s...

The Curious Case of Steve Skojec and the Dangers of Deep Diving into the Crisis Sub-Titled: The Failings of Others

 + JMJ It's been a while now since Steve Skojec sold 1P5 and abandoned the Catholic Faith. I've been a 'Trad' since 1982 and in those 40+ years I seen this death-spiral before with a similar end point. It seems that anyone who jumps into the fray unprepared for the enormous task of righting wrongs will, eventually, become discouraged by not the task but the people who surround them.   I remember when Skojec complained of the treatment his family received from a traditional priest.  This seems to have been the start of the end for him. So what can we learn from the likes of Steve Skojec, Michael Voris (maybe?), Louie Verrecchio, Gerry Matatix and other celebrity Catholics? Probably quite a lot about what not to do. First, don't burn out on the crisis?  When you burn out, on work or anything else, little things assume a more greater importance than they are due.   This is one of my 'canary in the coal mine' signals that I've been stretching myself too th...

The Position of the SSPX on Canonizations by the Saint Factory

+ JMJ I have sometimes been criticized for including 'St' as a title for Pope John Paul II et al. I've given my reasons here  in a discussion with Alex Long. The question is one of prudence in discussions with ntCatholics and in some cases with tCatholics. In discussions with:  ntCatholics, I will use the title in order to continue the discussion and help them arrive at a realistic understanding of the crisis of the Church. tCatholics, I will use the title in order to broaden their perspective on the doctrine of dogmatic facts. This broader perspective is, in my opinion, essential maintaining a realistic understanding of the crisis of the Church. So from a doctrinal position, I have written the article Dogmatic Fact of Fancy  and includes a reference on canonizations. Now, I know the position of the SSPX is that the canonizations are doubtful (see references below) and I also know of at least one non-SSPX theologian who agrees with the level of doubt du...