The Line of Archbishop Lefebvre

The Line of Archbishop Lefebvre - Reboot

JMJ

I haven't written about the 'Resistance' for sometime as ... well frankly ... I'm 'retired' and sometimes you just need to have a face-to-face discussion in order to make any headway in evaluating the various positions that the 'Resistors' take.

But I have some time ... so ...

One item that is a fall back position for 'Resistors' is the statement that Archbishop Lefevbre said "No canonical regularization without a doctrinal agreement".

I challenge any 'Resistor' to provide a reference where the Archbishop said these exact words.

News flash - he didn't.

For those 'Resistors' who aren't mindlessly repeating something they heard elsewhere, this is usually taken as a reference to an interview given to Fideliter in 1988.

I can’t speak much of the future, mine is behind me, but if I live a little while, supposing that Rome calls for a renewed dialogue, then, I will put conditions. I shall not accept being in the position where I was put during the dialogue. No more. I will place the discussion at the doctrinal level: “Do you agree with the great encyclicals of all the popes who preceded you? Do you agree with Quanta Cura of Pius IX, Immortale Dei and Libertas of Leo XIII, Pascendi Gregis of Pius X, Quas Primas of Pius XI, Humani Generis of Pius XII? Are you in full communion with these Popes and their teachings? Do you still accept the entire Anti-Modernist Oath? Are you in favor of the social reign of Our Lord Jesus Christ? If you do not accept the doctrine of your predecessors, it is useless to talk! As long as you do not accept the correction of the Council, in consideration of the doctrine of these Popes, your predecessors, no dialogue is possible. It is useless.”Thus, the positions will be clear. (Fideliter interview Nov / Dec 1988)

Before we go through the quote, I think it is valid to recognize that the "no canonical ..." is actually a principle established by the 2000 or 2006 general chapter of the SSPX in their dealings with Rome. It is also important to note that this interview appeared in the Nov / Dec 1988 issue of the Fideliter and that the whole context of the Archbishop's thoughts need to include the statements made by the Archbishop before and after this interview (for example see this article and these two interviews).

Now back to the principle and the actual words of Archbishop Lefebvre.

We can factually establish that Archbishop Lefebvre did not make the statement the "Resistors" love so much.
The Archbishop was speaking if he was alive and Rome called for a renewed 'dialogue', he was clear that he couldn't "speak much of the future". The Archbishop went to his reward 25 years ago in 1991.
We have the summary statement "If you do not accept the doctrine of your ... as long as you do not accept the correction of the Council ...".

Now this is interesting, as the SSPX discussions were all about expressing and discusssing the core issues with the Council. The endpoint was that the Roman theologians accused the SSPX of being protestants and the SSPX rebuted that they were Modernists.

What 'Resistors' seem to miss is that if the SSPX were regularized while maintaining their position on the Council (read Four Points), this in itself is a doctrinal agreement that the Council can be corrected as Rome will have accepted that one can be Catholic and not accept the Second Vatican Council in the manner of the SSPX.

But, the likes of the Resistors have a fundamental assumption that the ONLY way for this crisis to be resolved is for the immediate abrogation of the Novus Ordo Missae and condemnation of the Second Vatican Council.

That would be a first. It took almost 200 years for Arianism to be purged from the Church.

Seems to be a lack patience and perhaps even more a lack of gratitude.

Be careful, if you find yourself becoming bitter and self-righteous, you may be on the wrong path. Can one really be called "Traditional Catholic" if they disregard Church Teaching???

The fall of Bishop Williamson et al is something to keep before our eyes in order to remain humble and grateful for the gifts that God has granted us with no merit of our own.

P^3

Further Reading
Tradicat: Satis Cognitum and the SSPX - part 1
Tradicat: Satis Cognitum and the SSPX - part 2
Tradicat: One and two years after the consecrations
Tradicat: A theologians questions

A Look Back: A short history of the SSPX

+ JMJ I started a timeline a while back but never finished it. Fortunately, here's one that brings us up to 1994!!! P^3 http://archives.sspx.org/SSPX_FAQs/a_short_history_of_the_sspx-part-1.htm A short history of the SSPX A presentation given by Fr. Ramon Angles in Kansas City, MO, on the 25th Anniversary of the founding of the SSPX and reprinted from the January 1996 issue of The Angelus . Part 1 The history of the Society of St. Pius X begins, of course, in the mind of God. But do not believe that its temporal origin is to be found solely at the time of the post-conciliar crisis. The Society of St. Pius X was made possible ...

Hermeneutic of the Hermeneutic of Continuity - sspx.org

+ JMJ Since I'm looking at the 'four things', I thought this article would be good. Unfortunately, with the new SSPX.org website, I've been unable to locate the original article. This is a copy the I emailed to myself. This is an article that, I believe, was written in response to a conference given by Msgr. Pozzo. P^3

SSPX and the Resistance - A Comparison Of Ecclesiology

Shining the light of Church Teaching on the doctrinal positions of the SSPX and the Resistance. Principles are guides used to aid in decision making. It stands to reason that bad principles will lead to bad decisions. The recent interactions between Rome and the SSPX has challenged a number of closely held cultural assumptions of people in both sides of the disagreement. This has resulted in cultural skirmishes in both Rome and the SSPX. Since it is the smaller of the two, the skirmishes have been more evident within the SSPX. The cultural fault-line that Bishop Fellay crossed appears to be linked to two points of Catholic Doctrine: Ecclesiology and Obedience. The cultural difference of view points is strong enough that it has resulted in the expulsion of a number of members. It should also be noted that some other priests expelled since the beginning of the latest interactions (starting in 2000) held the same view points and have joined with the l...

Morning and Evening and other sundry Prayers

+ JMJ Along the theme of P^3 (Prayer, Penance, Patience), and for my own reference ... here is a collection of Morning and Evening prayers from the Ideal Daily Missal along with some additional prayers. In this crisis of the Church, I do not think it is possible to do too much prayer, penance and have patience. P^3

Dogmas of the Catholic Faith (de fide) - Expanded Listing: Answer for Reader

+ JMJ A reader asked the following question in the 2015 version of the article on the Dogmas of the Catholic Faith (link) : 117: "In the state of fallen nature it is morally impossible for man without Supernatural Revelation, to know easily, with absolute certainty and without admixture of error, all religious and moral truths of the natural order." Where can you find this in the documents of the Church? ( Link to comment ) Here's the reference from Ott: The citation that Ott provided was Denzinger 1786 and the source document is Dogmatic Consitution Concerning the Faith from the First Vatican Council (Papal Encyclicals - link) : Chapter 2 On Revelation, Article 3: It is indeed thanks to this divine revelation , that those matters concerning God, which are not of themselves beyond the scope of human reason, can, even in the present state of the human race, be known by everyone, without difficulty, with firm certitude and with no intermingling of error. Here's ...

Tradicat

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