Skip to main content

FSSPX.News: Practical Considerations on Vaccination Against COVID-19 - Pure Church Moral Teaching (Sorry LifeSite, ++Vigano et al) - Part 2 - Blogosphere A Twitter

 +
JMJ

Introduction

It would appear that the FSSPX's position on morally tainted vaccines has created a bit of a stir. 

With a quick search I found:

https://www.superflumina.org/commentary-on-fr-selegnys-sspx-paper.html

https://www.churchmilitant.com/news/article/trads-slam-sspx-for-sanitizing-fetal-cell-jab 

NB. Don't let the link fool you ... here's the sensationalist title from CM et al: 

SSPX Sparks Civil War Over Vaccine Passports

Only ... it's not about 'Vaccine Passports', as usual CMTV is designing their titles to create clicks or controversy.  They cited a blog by SSPX faithful Tony Ambrosetti.  You can read it here ...

https://aaambrosetti.wordpress.com/2021/09/25/father-arnaud-selegny-sspx-pragmatist/

According to CMTV this 'appears' to have created a bit of a stir amongst the SSPX faithful ... but that really doesn't matter.

What matters is the truth and whether or not the SSPX has correctly understood the Catholic Moral Theology on this matter.

Link to an Evil Event

I think Mr. Ambrosetti's core issue is expressed as follows:

We asked Fr. Pagliarani to forget the myth that this evil industry involved a remote one or two murdered babies long ago. 

So, Mr. Ambrosetti believes that it is a myth that there is a connection to only two murdered babies and that these murders took place well in the past.

Myth-Conceptions or Which Abortion?

This has a bearing on the morality of being vaccinated with a  morally tainted vaccine that I discussed earlier in Part 1 and in the series "Making Moral Vaccine Decisions" (see links below for core articles).  

For me this is not an academic question regarding vaccination etc.  I am involved in Canada's Pandemic response and I needed to study this to understand if I had to refuse to work on the team due to conscience objections.  

The reality of the matter is that the 'evil' in question is the murder to two babies killed in 1972 and 1985. There is an unbroken chain of acts from those two murders to some of the COVID-19 vaccines being injected into peoples arms. In between the creation of the cell lines and the injection the cell lines have been used in research etc, and undoubtedly the abortionists murdered other babies who bodies were sold and entered the research system.  

But ...

We are concerned only with our own part in the cooperation with the evil of murder, not that of others (that's their problem). 

When we go into confession we don't say:

"Bless me Father for Dr. Eb has sinned". 

Nope, we would have to say:

 "Bless me Father for I have cooperated in the evil of abortion". 

In confession we have to be specific so that isn't good enough, so we would have to say:

 "Bless me Father for I have cooperated in the evil of abortion. The baby was aborted in 1972 / 1985 and I was vaccinated with a vaccine which used a cell line derived from the baby's kidney / retina for production / testing.  I have received the original two doses, plus a booster."

You wouldn't go and say:

 "Bless me Father for I have cooperated in the evil of abortion by being vaccinated. The babies were aborted between 1953 and the present.  The abortions continue even today, so I estimate that I have cooperated in about 20 to 50 million abortions. Some of their bodies were used in research and may have found their way into food, personal care (make up etc) and medical products. I have now way of knowing how many."

 That is not the way Catholic Morality works. We are concerned about cooperation in a specific act, the act of murder of a specific person from which we can make a direct connection. In the case of the vaccines, we cooperate only at the point at which we are receiving something that was made using or testing using those cell lines. In the case of COVID-19 vaccines the only cell lines involved are HEK-293 and PER.C6.

Which means only those two murders.

That there are other murders being committed and cell lines created is not relevant to our Cooperation in Evil.  It has to be drawn down to a specific act and many can't seem to grasp this very simple concept. It doesn't matter how many murders were committed by the abortionist or if they continue to murder babies, what matters is how many causal links you can follow back to those murders ... those acts of murder. Those of the murders in which you are cooperating by being vaccinated with a morally tainted vaccine..

One quick note before continuing, I want to be certain that we understand clearly: The heinous nature of the crime (murder of innocents) does not change it's nature.  It is still murder. As I like to say, Thou Shalt Not Commit Abortion is NOT the Eleventh Commandment. 

Abandoning Catholic Principles over an legitimately emotionally charged issue is not warranted.  In fact, it is a trap by which we can be manipulated to reduce our influence on the world.

Applying the Principle

Let's think about this for a second and apply the principle ...

In North America the US Calvary massacred innocents to take their land I can't remember where exactly but it happened..  Americans now live on that same land, deriving an obvious benefit from their cooperation in the evil of murder.  If I am correct in my assessment of Mr. Ambrosetti's understanding of the moral theology, then he should argue that they should move somewhere else.  Oh wait a second, that would effectively mean that every non-Indian would have to move because they are cooperating in evil remotely.

I suspect that Mr. Ambrosetti et al would find this argument a bit far fetched. 

Here's one that it closer to home (both figuratively and temporally).  HEK-293 cell lines were used in the creation and testing of flavours for soft drinks (Pepsi). If you drink Pepsi products (pre-change) you may have been pouring into your body a substance that is morally tainted. [NFTFO: Pepsi ceased the practice - so you can drink Pepsi ... if you like ... with a clean conscience.]

In the same way there is no moral connection with the other murders of innocent babies that occur by the minute across the world. That is ... unless you share the intention of the murderers. Then you have crossed the line to Formal Cooperation with evil (see below).

What If the HEK-293 Baby Wasn't Murdered?

Now it is not known for certain if the baby whose kidney's were used to create the HEK-293 cell line was murdered. Yep, that is the truth.  

Here's what Dr. Eb said:

The kidney of the fetus was, with an unknown family history,was obtained in 1972 probably. The precise date is not known anymore. The fetus, as far as I can remember was completely normal. Nothing was wrong. The reasons for the abortion were unknown to me. I probably knew it at that time, but it got lost, all this information.
Before someone freaks out because he used the word 'abortion', let's understand that they use abortion as a catch-all phrase for a terminated pregnancy.  When talking about the baby whose body was used to create the PER.C6 cells he uses the phrase:

... it turned out to be a socially indicated abortus, abortus provacatus, and that was simply because the woman wanted to get rid of the fetus.
So here's a scenario where the baby's body could have been obtained in a moral manner.  

In 1972, a mother goes into pre-mature labour (let's say 18 weeks) after being involved in a car accident.  She's rushed to the hospital. With our present technology both would have survived, but this is 1972  In spite of the best available care at the time after being delivered the child dies. When approached about donating her baby's kidney to scientific research the parents agree.

In this scenario, there is no moral taint on the HEK-293 cell line and the entire argument disappears. 

Irregardless of the sins committed by Dr. Eb in the other cell line (PER.C6) and their previous and following work, this cell line would be untainted by murder and completely licit to be used in research and the production of vaccines.

The Core Question

The remaining question is whether there is a moral connection with the evil act with which we are cooperating. In moral theology this topic is usually called "Cooperation in Evil".

Nota Bene: When I did a quick review of Mr. Ambrosetti's article, I found references to a variety of authorities, but not one citation of a pre-conciliar Moral Theology text.  This is a gaping hole in his argumentation as he has to fill in the gaps between the principles he is mining and the reality of the Faith in Action.  May be it is in previous articles, but his current article lacks these and I lack the time to dig through his blog.

Cooperation in Evil: Immediate, Mediate Proximate and Mediate Remote

In the Moral Theology texts that I reviewed (see below), there was some terminology difference so I worked my way through it and came out to the following definitions and the degree of cooperation.

It was not a simple task and required a large number of hours to work my way through the pertinent sections of the texts.  It was hard work, so I can see why people don't have the desire or stamina to work through a complicated issue.  I had to and so you can benefit from my work. 

Nota Bene: This is real research, reading texts, not just watching YouTube videos.  I was recently chastised by a friend for not researching on YouTube. My answer - no thanks. I prefer to go to the text books instead of listening to a two hour YouTube video to extract 30 seconds of valuable information.

If you find an error, then tell me but please do better that saying 'so and so said so, so you're wrong'.  That just doesn't cut it when we are talking about the salvation and damnation of souls. Not to mention their livelihood.  In the US they are going to mandate their soldiers be vaccinated and a lot are talking about quitting because of the moral issue.  This is unnecessary suffering from a Catholic Moral Theology perspective.

Now the most important part is the table that I used to summarize the ways in which we cooperate in evil. These definitions are either right or wrong, but if they are wrong, then the pre-conciliar moral theologians were wrong. 

.So ... which definition fits being injected with a morally tainted vaccine.  From my reading it is Mediate - Remote.

As I mentioned in Part 1 of this series, we have three factors to weigh in making a decision to be vaccinated and if so with which vaccine: Morality, Safety, and Efficacy.

Morality

From a Morality perspective, assuming you don't share the intention,  the degree of cooperation is remote.  No matter how you try, it is impossible to go back in time and prevent the murder or cooperate in it in an immediate or proximate manner.

That leaves us with a Remote cooperation in evil.

There was a number of ways, following CATHOLIC MORAL THEOLOGY,  that this remote cooperation is permissible.  Danger of disease that could cause death is the easy one.  Other reasons include not being able to earn a living. 

So everything that the SSPX has stated on this issue is completely consistent with the pre-conciliar teaching of the Church.  I get people are uncomfortable with this situation, but it is a matter of adjusting their incorrect beliefs to the reality of the Church.  The world isn't just black and white, nor it is grey, it is speckled.

In part 3, I will discuss how I analysed the safety and efficacy of the vaccines.

P^3



Reference: Making Moral Vaccine Decisions Series

Tradicat Series: Making Moral Vaccine Decisions

 New Article Series: Making Moral Vaccine Decisions 

Making Moral Vaccine Decisions - Part A: Guiding Principles  

Making Moral Vaccine Decisions - Part B: Situation 

Making Moral Vaccine Decisions - Part C: Moral Issues 

Making Moral Vaccine Decisions - Part D: Vaccine Safety and Efficacy 

Making Moral Vaccine Decisions - Part E: Vaccines In Canada 

Making Moral Vaccine Decisions - Part F: Our Obligations 

Making Moral Vaccine Decisions - Part G: Conclusion and Resources 

Making Moral Vaccine Decisions - Part H: Responses to Comments by L Fischer --- Update A 

Making Moral Vaccine Decisions - Part i: Canadian Conference of Catholic Bishops 

Making Moral Vaccine Decisions - Part J: How to Vaccinate Like a Catholic

Moral Theology Texts





 

 

 

Comments

  1. You really should restart your research....this is the most childish simplistic view of moral theology I've seen, maybe even more than Fr. Selegny.

    ReplyDelete
  2. Hi Joe,

    Well, you know I have to try and simplify a complicated subject without losing its core meaning.

    If you believe I have err'd then please enlighten me.

    P^3

    ReplyDelete

Post a Comment

Popular posts from this blog

The Curious Case of Steve Skojec and the Dangers of Deep Diving into the Crisis Sub-Titled: The Failings of Others

 + JMJ It's been a while now since Steve Skojec sold 1P5 and abandoned the Catholic Faith. I've been a 'Trad' since 1982 and in those 40+ years I seen this death-spiral before with a similar end point. It seems that anyone who jumps into the fray unprepared for the enormous task of righting wrongs will, eventually, become discouraged by not the task but the people who surround them.   I remember when Skojec complained of the treatment his family received from a traditional priest.  This seems to have been the start of the end for him. So what can we learn from the likes of Steve Skojec, Michael Voris (maybe?), Louie Verrecchio, Gerry Matatix and other celebrity Catholics? Probably quite a lot about what not to do. First, don't burn out on the crisis?  When you burn out, on work or anything else, little things assume a more greater importance than they are due.   This is one of my 'canary in the coal mine' signals that I've been stretching myself too thin

Morning and Evening and other sundry Prayers

+ JMJ Along the theme of P^3 (Prayer, Penance, Patience), and for my own reference ... here is a collection of Morning and Evening prayers from the Ideal Daily Missal along with some additional prayers. In this crisis of the Church, I do not think it is possible to do too much prayer, penance and have patience. P^3

Comparision of the Tridentine, Cranmer and Novus Ordo Masses

+ JMJ I downloaded the comparison that was linked in the previous article on the mass (here) . ... a very good reference! P^3 From: Whispers of Restoration (available at this link) . CHARTING LITURGICAL CHANGE Comparing the 1962 Ordinary of the Roman Mass to changes made during the Anglican Schism; Compared in turn to changes adopted in the creation of Pope Paul VI’s Mass in 1969 The chart on the reverse is a concise comparison of certain ritual differences between three historical rites for the celebration of the Catholic Mass Vetus Ordo: “Old Order,” the Roman Rite of Mass as contained in the 1962 Missal, often referred to as the “Traditional Latin Mass.”The Ordinary of this Mass is that of Pope St. Pius V (1570) following the Council of Trent (1545-63), hence the occasional moniker “Tridentine Mass.” However, Trent only consolidated and codified the Roman Rite already in use at that time; its essential form dates to Pope St. Gregory the Great (+604), in whose time the R

What the heck is a congregation of "Pontifical Right"

+ JMJ In a discussion with a friend the question occurred to me that I didn't actually know was is involved in being a religious order of 'pontifical right'. I had a vague notion that this meant they reported to Rome as opposed to the local diocese. I'm also aware that, according to the accounts I have heard, the Archbishop received 'praise' and the written direction to incardinate priests directly into the SSPX.  This is interesting because it implies that the SSPX priests were no longer required to incardinate in the local diocese but in the SSPX. This is something that belongs to an order of 'pontifical right'. Anyway here's some definitions: Di diritto pontificio is the Italian term for “of pontifical right” . It is given to the ecclesiastical institutions (the religious and secular institutes, societies of apostolic life) either created by the Holy See or approved by it with the formal decree, known by its Latin name, Decretu