Tim Gordon vs Jeff Cassman - Is the SSPX In Schism?

JMJ

This debate between Tim Gordon and Jeff Cassman.took place a few months ago.

Tim Gordon simply repeats old arguments.

The objective truth of what Rome says about the SSPX - officially - is contained in this post [Is the SSPX in Schism?].

The Question

The Answer

No matter how many 'authorities' are cited, it all is naught - the only authoritative answer that describes the situation in recent memory (that I'm aware of) is the one above.

The SSPX is 'not in full communion'.

Period ... end point.

P^3

P.S. I think I also need to point out that now, thanks to Pope Francis, the SSPX does exercise legitimate ministry within the Catholic Church - ie Confession and Marriages.

P^3

Comments

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+ JMJ When a person's assumptions are events outside of their control they form an opinion and, in my experience, assert this opinion to be fact. So ... it is important to define some terms:

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+ JMJ It's been a while now since Steve Skojec sold 1P5 and abandoned the Catholic Faith. I've been a 'Trad' since 1982 and in those 40+ years I seen this death-spiral before with a similar end point. It seems that anyone who jumps into the fray unprepared for the enormous task of righting wrongs will, eventually, become discouraged by not the task but the people who surround them. I remember when Skojec complained of the treatment his family received from a traditional priest. This seems to have been the start of the end for him. So what can we learn from the likes of Steve Skojec, Michael Voris (maybe?), Louie Verrecchio, Gerry Matatix and other celebrity Catholics? Probably quite a lot about what not to do. First, don't burn out on the crisis? When you burn out, on work or anything else, little things assume a more greater importance than they are due. This is one of my 'canary in the coal mine' signals that I've been stretching myself too thin

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+ JMJ Along the theme of P^3 (Prayer, Penance, Patience), and for my own reference ... here is a collection of Morning and Evening prayers from the Ideal Daily Missal along with some additional prayers. In this crisis of the Church, I do not think it is possible to do too much prayer, penance and have patience. P^3

Thirty Days Prayer to Our Lady -

+ JMJ Providence has cast this prayer in my path twice in the last week. I decided to post it here in order to have a copy handy. P^3 Prayer Penance Patience Source Intro Prayer With the condition of affairs in the cultural, political and physical world in a state of disarray we enter Lent - Ash Wednesday - February 25th - 2004 - more compelled then ever to pursue, diligently and faithfully, our personal road to holiness. It is a long, difficult path each of us treads, however, we do know the journey can be sweeter and more blessed if we travel it with others. Jesus has told us: "Wherever two or more are gathered in my name, I am with you." And there are many other biblical passages, as well, that urge us to love and help one another. A 'Thirty Day Prayer to the Blessed Virgin Mary ' was said by many Catholics during troubled times in their lives up until Vatican II. While looking through old stored away boxes, I came across a small white prayer b

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+ JMJ A couple of humorous perspectives: Chapel of the Sacred Heart of Jesus (SSPX), a chapel not recognized by the Archdiocese I guess they are no longer able to recognize what is authentically Catholic vs inculturated ... :-) The views of the SSPX also dissent from the teachings of the Second Vatican Council This is a little outdated ... I wish I knew what exactly they are talking about and how to square the circle with pre-conciliar Catholic Teaching. and they have serious questions about the order of mass promulgated by Pope St. Paul VI Darn tooting they are serious questions, I'm glad they have admitted that the questions posed by the SSPX are serious and meriting a serious answer. But we already know the answer to one of them: As for the use of the 1962 Missal as a Forma extraordinaria of the liturgy of the Mass, I would like to draw attention to the fact that this Missal was never juridically abrogated and, consequently, in principle, was always p

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