Tim Gordon vs Jeff Cassman - Is the SSPX In Schism?

JMJ

This debate between Tim Gordon and Jeff Cassman.took place a few months ago.

Tim Gordon simply repeats old arguments.

The objective truth of what Rome says about the SSPX - officially - is contained in this post [Is the SSPX in Schism?].

The Question

The Answer

No matter how many 'authorities' are cited, it all is naught - the only authoritative answer that describes the situation in recent memory (that I'm aware of) is the one above.

The SSPX is 'not in full communion'.

Period ... end point.

P^3

P.S. I think I also need to point out that now, thanks to Pope Francis, the SSPX does exercise legitimate ministry within the Catholic Church - ie Confession and Marriages.

P^3

Comments

Rome,the SSPX and this time of Crisis - Updated

+ JMJ Obviously there's lots of events right now. First we have the April 1st - I almost thought it was April Fools - meeting between Pope Francis and Bishop Fellay. Nothing really news worthy as this is a natural progression as Rome appears to be considering fulfilling Archbishop Lefebvre's wish to 'accept us as we are'. Second we have the April 8th publication of what will be a verbose exhortation of the Synod of the Family. I'm willing to bet that the Pope will give with one hand (unilateral regularization of SSPX) and take with the other (ambiguous document that opens the flood gates of sin further). Much to pray for. P^3

Unhinged Catholics ... are they on the right path? How would you know? (Updated 2x with Response to Comments)

+ JMJ (Originally Published Sept 7, 2019, Updated July 30, 2022, Updated August 13, 2022) Based on Pope Francis' latest selections for Cardinals, the Church appears to be in deep winter. Just to be clear, I don't mean a Florida winter, I mean a Canadian winter. In the last 35+ years as a Trad, I've seen my fair share of Catholics suffering from, and dying of, mental and spiritual hypothermia. When a Catholic pours themselves into the 'fight', neglects their spiritual life, doesn't deepen their understanding of the Catholic Faith, then there is a good chance that they will become embittered, frustrated, and angry. With their narrowed perspectives they risk being blindsided and smacked in the head with a metaphorical 2x4. Just look at the headlines on canon212 for some examples. Here's some others: "Diabolically Disoriented" Michael Matt Reveals His True Colors as a Pied Piper Leading "Traditionalists" (i.e., real Cat...

The Vatican and SSPX – An Organizational Culture Perspective

Introduction The recent and continuing interactions between the Vatican and the SSPX have been a great opportunity for prayer and reflection. The basis for the disagreement is theological and not liturgical. As noted by Dr. Lamont (2012), the SSPX theological position on the four key controversial aspects of the Second Vatican Council are base on prior theological work that resulted from relevant magisterial pronouncements. So it is difficult to understand the apparent rejection of the theological position of the SSPX.

SSPX and the Resistance - A Comparison Of Ecclesiology

Shining the light of Church Teaching on the doctrinal positions of the SSPX and the Resistance. Principles are guides used to aid in decision making. It stands to reason that bad principles will lead to bad decisions. The recent interactions between Rome and the SSPX has challenged a number of closely held cultural assumptions of people in both sides of the disagreement. This has resulted in cultural skirmishes in both Rome and the SSPX. Since it is the smaller of the two, the skirmishes have been more evident within the SSPX. The cultural fault-line that Bishop Fellay crossed appears to be linked to two points of Catholic Doctrine: Ecclesiology and Obedience. The cultural difference of view points is strong enough that it has resulted in the expulsion of a number of members. It should also be noted that some other priests expelled since the beginning of the latest interactions (starting in 2000) held the same view points and have joined with the l...

Rome and the SSPX - the latest

+ JMJ Bishop Fellay gave a conference late last month and provided some more insight into the situation with Rome. There are comments on Deus Ex Machina Blog and Hilary White has now entered the fray. What is one Catholic to think about all these opinions? What a Catholic is to think: With the Church! What does the Church think about obedience? Virtue as it is? If there is no proximate occasion of sin and the other conditions are met, then one cannot resist the command.

Tradicat

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