CMTV offers its understanding of schism and Tradical responds

JMJ

CMTV has posted its thoughts on schism here. I decided to reply - we'll see if they post my comments. Just in case ... here's what I wrote.

I understand that recently a CMTV moderator stated that the SSPX is formally in schism and that they are all in a state of mortal sin.

Wow, talk about hubris and a lack of catechesis.

P^3

Your theory primarily rests upon what constitutes 'submission' to the Holy Father. Simple disobedience does not constitute an act of schism, it is necessary to deny the Pope's divine right to rule. Now if the Pope had not required the SSPX to compromise on its points of conscience and they continued to refuse to obey a legitimate command (one that met all the conditions for obedience) then you'd have a case.

Concerning 'refusing communion with other Catholics', again there is a problem with the thesis as you have ignored the reasons for their recommending (not forbidding) against attending the New Mass, and seeking the Sacraments from non-ED communities.

The New Mass as promulgated is objectively a 'departure from the Theology of the Mass as defined by the Council of Trent'. As such the SSPX ascribes the label of 'evil' using the definition of an absence of a due good. Please note that this is concerning the rite and not the sacrifice itself. A simple example is that removal of the genuflection by the Priest immediately after the consecration. In the old rite the genuflection demonstrated the belief that the priest alone confected the sacrament and not by the power or faith of the congregation.

The removal of this genuflection is simply one point where the Catholic Theology is not supported and a heretical one is emulated. Similarly, the Ukranian Bishops in Canada have removed the filioque from the Creed in order that it not offend the Schismatic Orthodox. Here, as in the New Order of Mass, we have a suppression of an expression of Catholic belief to favour a non-Catholic belief.

This, ultimately, is the root justification that the SSPX provides for abstaining from attending the New Order of Mass as in this light it constitutes a danger to the Faith as the New Mass is a "banal on the spot fabrication" (quoted Pope Benedict XVI).
So, really this article is more of a caricature of the principles that guide the SSPX than a factual representation.

Now concerning your conclusion that the SSPX is in a state of schism. The CDF does not agree. The CDF states (when asked clearly if they are in a formal state of schsim) that simply they are "not in full communion".

CMTV would do better than to promote an incomplete perspective of the SSPX and go beyond what the CDF has stated concerning their status within the Church. (http://tradicat.blogspot.ca/2015/08/is-sspx-schismatic-like-cmtv-would-like.html )
God bless and keep you in peace of soul.
P^3

Comments

A Reply to Martin Blackshaw’s FLAWED Remnant article titled: FLAWED: SSPX Advice on Abortion-tainted Vaccines

+ JMJ An article has appeared in the Remnant (link to article) and I am afraid that there are a number of flaws in it that need to be addressed. The author, Martin Blackshaw, believes that both the Church and the SSPX are misapplying the principle of Moral Theology called 'Cooperation In Evil'. Unfortunately, Mr. Blackshaw rests most of his arguments on citing authors that support his position, without considering the possibility that they are wrong. This highlights a key factor in this crisis: ignorance of the faith and its application . I don't am not singling out Mr. Blackshaw for this criticism, I have observed that it applies to laity and religious, superior and subject a like. No one seems immune in this enduring crisis, myself included. I further believe that this ignorance is why so many Catholics, both traditional and non, rely on their gut feeling or "Catholic conscience" for charting their way through this crisis of the faith. While...

The Vatican and SSPX – An Organizational Culture Perspective

Introduction The recent and continuing interactions between the Vatican and the SSPX have been a great opportunity for prayer and reflection. The basis for the disagreement is theological and not liturgical. As noted by Dr. Lamont (2012), the SSPX theological position on the four key controversial aspects of the Second Vatican Council are base on prior theological work that resulted from relevant magisterial pronouncements. So it is difficult to understand the apparent rejection of the theological position of the SSPX.

Rome and the SSPX - the latest

+ JMJ Bishop Fellay gave a conference late last month and provided some more insight into the situation with Rome. There are comments on Deus Ex Machina Blog and Hilary White has now entered the fray. What is one Catholic to think about all these opinions? What a Catholic is to think: With the Church! What does the Church think about obedience? Virtue as it is? If there is no proximate occasion of sin and the other conditions are met, then one cannot resist the command.

SSPX and the Resistance - A Comparison Of Ecclesiology

Shining the light of Church Teaching on the doctrinal positions of the SSPX and the Resistance. Principles are guides used to aid in decision making. It stands to reason that bad principles will lead to bad decisions. The recent interactions between Rome and the SSPX has challenged a number of closely held cultural assumptions of people in both sides of the disagreement. This has resulted in cultural skirmishes in both Rome and the SSPX. Since it is the smaller of the two, the skirmishes have been more evident within the SSPX. The cultural fault-line that Bishop Fellay crossed appears to be linked to two points of Catholic Doctrine: Ecclesiology and Obedience. The cultural difference of view points is strong enough that it has resulted in the expulsion of a number of members. It should also be noted that some other priests expelled since the beginning of the latest interactions (starting in 2000) held the same view points and have joined with the l...

Morning and Evening and other sundry Prayers

+ JMJ Along the theme of P^3 (Prayer, Penance, Patience), and for my own reference ... here is a collection of Morning and Evening prayers from the Ideal Daily Missal along with some additional prayers. In this crisis of the Church, I do not think it is possible to do too much prayer, penance and have patience. P^3

Tradicat

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