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Conspiracy Theories, Cognitive Dissonance Theory, Fatima and the Sister Lucia Doppleganger (Update 2 with response to comment)

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JMJ

I realised a while back that conspiracy theories are attempts at explaining complicated events. Which isn't a big deal until they become a belief.

When I first entered the Traditional Catholic domain, there was a theory the Paul VI had been replaced by some nefarious people.  The reasoning what similar to the SedeVacantists, the pope can't do X, and did X so he can't be pope.

Fast forward forty years and we have a respectable academic (Home - Sister Lucy Truth) saying the same thing about Sister Lucia. It is basically the same premise all over again, Our Lady said X and Sister Lucia said X (about the consecration) and that can't be so ... Sister Lucia can't be Sister Lucia.

You see where this is going?

People get kidnapped all the time, but this one is a stretch for a big reason: The fake Sister Lucia lived amongst her sisters for years and most importantly was visited by her relatives. If she'd been swapped out don't you think they would have noticed. 

The conspiracy theory will need to be expanded in order to be workable, but in that it becomes unworkable. The bigger the number of people involved in a conspiracy the more power required to keep it from being revealed. This just grows until the conspirators have to go into god mode to keep it all together.

With the Ven. Sister Lucia theory we have a bunch of experts working off of photographs providing their opinion (i.e. not hard evidence) that is presented as 'proof' that from 1967 to her death there was an imposter posing at Sr. Lucia.  Well that's one dedicated imposter.

How the heck do these things get started?

Well - there is first an action (in this case some interview reports etc)  that contradicts a belief (in this case that the consecration of Russia was done) - so the believer has a choice - change their belief, change the action or change the perception of the action.

They'd rather believe that it was an imposter vs change their belief about Sr. Lucia.

I would hazard a guess that the three things (belief, action and perception of the action) are so muddled that the theorists can't make the proper distinctions.

So what about it?

The first thing is to challenge your beliefs when confronted with reality and to think critically.  Some people take the Ten Commandments literally as if they are all of the moral code.  However, as Catholics we know that isn't true - for example Our Lord Himself stated committing adultery in our hearts is also sinful.

In other words, don't be ignorant, if you are confronted with something that doesn't jive with your belief, don't throw reality out the window.  Think about it objectively and work through the hard parts - without taking any shortcuts.

Study and be ready to make the right distinctions.

Apologies, this has been a bit of  rant as the article idea has been on my list for months and I finally had a chance to write it up - but no time for careful editing.


P^3




 

Comments and Responses

samuelj commented on "Conspiracy Theories, Cognitive Dissonance Theory, Fatima and the Sister Lucia Doppleganger"
Aug 6, 2024
but the evidence bears out the differences. To say the photographs are the same is conspiracy all on its own.

Tradicat: 

That the photos are different is not in contention, what is in contention is that they are pictures of different people. 

These are photos taken over decades and I can state from personal experience that over decades people change and that photos taken over time will document that change.

In order to support the belief (i.e. conspiracy theory) that she was replaced, the author has resorted to 'expert opinion' based on photographic and handwriting 'evidence'.  No DNA, no eye witness accounts of the people near Sister Lucy etc.  

This is to support a conspiracy theory that she was kidnapped by alien body snatchers - oops sorry wrong genre. (ie my attempt at humour)

Maybe the author has other evidence and testimony but I didn't see anything on the site to suggest that the people who lived with her and her relatives who visited her over the years noted a body double who lived as Sister Lucy for decades.  

People change over the years, even my hand writing changes as I write more.   

In short there is a difference in the pictures and none of the opinions prove that it is anything else than the natural changes over decades of life.

P^3 

 

Sep 12, 2024 

samuelj commented on "Conspiracy Theories, Cognitive Dissonance Theory, Fatima and the Sister Lucia Doppleganger"

The photos of lucy are different , vastly so because bone structure does not change with age except perhaps growing less. You cannot have such a discrepancy in the jaw, space between the eyes, nose , teeth and handwriting without questioning (which is not a conspiracy theory) whether they can be the same person. The teeth are so 'corrected' to the point of laughing. I mean, Lucy wouldn't have been so vain as to have ALL her teeth replaced... Or having facial reconstruction... she was not a vain nun, wanting to be the best looking in the convent.

 I'm going to break this comment down into its main components:

Tradicat: So I guess we have to do this. Actually, we don't have to ... so I'm going to see if I can breakdown the arguments as quickly as possible.  Time is precious these days.

First, what is Dr. Peter Chojnowski's thesis, i.e. his theory that he is trying to prove or disprove? 

We at Sister Lucy Truth publicly declare that based on the evidence presented here, we have found it to be morally and scientifically certain that the woman portrayed to the world as “Sister Lucy,” from her first public appearance on May 13, 1967 to her death on February 13, 2005, was not the same person as Sister Lucy, Seer of Fatima and Visionary who predicted the Miracle of the Sun on October 13, 1917. ... The fraud has been identified and named. We charge the highest officials in the Vatican with conspiracy to perpetuate and conceal the substitution of Sister Lucy dos Santos of Fatima with an as yet unknown Imposter. Source: https://sisterlucytruth.org/an-indictment/

Does this fit the definition of a conspiracy theory?

a theory that explains an event or set of circumstances as the result of a secret plot by usually powerful conspirators: Source: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/conspiracy%20theory 

 Given the word 'conspiracy' is explicitly used ... yes this is a conspiracy theory.  What is missing is what led or drove Dr. Chojnowski to this conclusion? It is obvious that he had difficulty reconciling some of the words of Sister Lucy with what was said previously.  Assuming that Sister Lucy couldn't change, he assumes that a swap had to have occurred.  

The evidence is actually testimonies from various experts in handwriting and forensics.  Yet, I remain unconvinced?  Why?  Because, in spite of the experts best efforts, they are looking at photos taken over decades, with different exposures and technology.  Then they introduce artists impressions of what Sister Lucy "should" have looked like.

Then I have the evidence of my own eyes as I watched a number of female relatives age over decades (i.e. ~50 years).  They are incredibly changed over the years and I saw them in living colour.  Yet, I still knew who they were because I saw them regularly over that time span.

Moving on ...

Sorry, not sorry, all of this requires a conspiracy of dozens of people.  The Sisters with her in the convent, her relatives and other visitors.None of this is presented by Dr. Chojnowski.  Couldn't he find even one witness to support his thesis? Just one person to testify that the woman they knew as their sister / aunt etc was not the same after 1967. Nope ... did he even try?  I don't know.  

Without witnesses, we have DNA testing. This is equally problematic for Dr. Chojnowski  as it would be a similar point of giving the biased scientists the pieces of the shroud.  

Barring this, looking at the 'evidence', I conclude otherwise as I can see questions that need to be asked and frankly, it just isn't worth my time because my Faith isn't based upon what Dr. C believes. 

Now ... onwards ...

  • The photos of lucy are different , 
  • vastly so because bone structure does not change with age except perhaps growing less. Tradicat: You really should have a look at the science of aging.  Bones change, the effects of gravity, loss of muscle tone, skin becoming thinner, fat deposits change.  Aging is not a gentle process. I find nothing (ie zero) to be concerned about in this transformation. As to what she said pre and post alleged body swap, could be due to  a number of factors. Factors that we don't know because: We aren't God.
  • You cannot have such a discrepancy in the
    • jaw, space between the eyes, nose,  teeth Tradicat: Having looked at the photos presented by Dr. C, I have to ask - what was the standard used to make the assessment. I mean really there wasn't a ruler to give scale.  There was no discussion on whether the photo was taken dead on or at an angle. The ones I saw didn't have the dimensions - just vague descriptions like 'smaller' etc.  I would want to see dimensions and error bars around those 'measurements'.  I suspect the degree of uncertainty in the measurements would render them scientifically moot.
    • and handwriting Tradicat: Well, I for one am glad that my handwriting has changed as I got older.  For the better.  Again, as you get older, it is not unheard of that the person experiences a change in the fine motor skills. All of this is normal.  So, I'm not surprised if there are changes in her writing over flipping DECADES.
    • without questioning (which is not a conspiracy theory) whether they can be the same person. Tradicat:Let's be clear Dr. C is not just questioning - he had gone full monty on the conspiracy theory.
    • The teeth are so 'corrected' to the point of laughing. Tradicat: Well, when my Dad had to have all his teeth yanked they asked if he'd like to have his false teeth replicate his real once. He said something to the effect of: "Hell no, if I'm paying for them I want them to be straight!"
    • I mean, Lucy wouldn't have been so vain as to have ALL her teeth replaced... Tradicat: Well, my Dad's teeth rotted out apparently as a result of post-war starvation in a refugee camp.  She wasn't rich as a child so we could ask questions about her nutrition during her formative years.
    • Or having facial reconstruction... she was not a vain nun, wanting to be the best looking in the convent.Tradicat: Wow, there's a bunch of assumptions in this and the only thing I will say is that when you make an assumption, you make and ASS out of U and NOT ME! :-) Let's take a little walk down this path - what if there was some disease state that required facial reconstruction.  
 In all this what is important?  To not gobble up the first explanation for something that challenges your beliefs.  For all we know she just said them.  

P^3

September 13, 2024
 
 
and i might add that ALL of these differences are amazing, ALL at the same time!! The odds are just too much to calculate. ALL of these changes to this one person never occurs in nature. The photos tell the tale. These are two totally different people.
 
Tradicat: You may find the difference 'amazing' but I am neither amazed nor amused.
 
That you believe ... I repeat this is a belief - that you believe the opinions of others without sufficient actual data to assess the veracity of their claims. This is simply is a subjective response to a report that lacked substantive proof.  It is literally all opinion and I've love to see the numbers that they used to 'determine' that they are different people. 
 
So while you may be 'amazed', believe that these 'differences' never occur in nature and that the photos tell the tale and that these pictures reflect two different people.  Well, that is up to you. 

Believing doesn't make it so and is not a safe way to make a decision in this matter.
 
I have learned to be far more critical of these claims since I examined 911 conspiracy theories in detail.
 
P^3

 

Comments

  1. but the evidence bears out the differences. To say the photographs are the same is conspiracy all on its own.

    ReplyDelete
  2. The photos of lucy are different , vastly so because bone structure does not change with age except perhaps growing less. You cannot have such a discrepancy in the jaw, space between the eyes, nose , teeth and handwriting without questioning (which is not a conspiracy theory) whether they can be the same person. The teeth are so 'corrected' to the point of laughing. I mean, Lucy wouldn't have been so vain as to have ALL her teeth replaced... Or having facial reconstruction... she was not a vain nun, wanting to be the best looking in the convent.

    ReplyDelete
  3. and i might add that ALL of these differences are amazing, ALL at the same time!! The odds are just too much to calculate. ALL of these changes to this one person never occurs in nature. The photos tell the tale. These are two totally different people.

    ReplyDelete

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