What Can Traditional Catholics Learn From The Israeli

What Can Traditional Catholics Learn From The Israeli - Hamas Conflict???

JMJ

The Conflict

From my perspective, the Hamas / Israeli conflict is, at its core, a religious conflict that is buried beneath decades of rights, wrongs, stones, grenades, bullets, missiles, bombs, fighting and death.

Lots of death.

I've read "Son of Hamas" that provided a good perspective of the situation, specifically that there are "good" and "bad" people on both sides of the conflict.

Let's be clear, the "good" people are not the ones who act from a position of cruelty to kidnap, beat, rape, and kill civilians.

The recent events show the Hamas "soldiers" being guilty of these actions. From the "Son of Hamas" and Wikipedia (link) we have older accounts of Israeli soldiers being guilty of the similar actions.

So this is a situation where, from a cultural perspective (Edgar Schein link) deep and enduring assumptions have formed. Anything that contradicts or threatens these assumptions will create a strong emotional response and because of these emotions is at risk of being disregarded.

I recently watched some videos from a couple of months ago where people, Gazans I assumed, were asked if they would accept proof of Israeli civilization from archaeological sources. They denied the existence, said it couldn't exist etc. The denial of reality is a hallmark of Cognitive Dissonance and irrational behaviour of trying to recast reality to our perception instead of accepting it as reality and amending our ideas.

A Perspective from Tom Clancy's Battle Ready

Tom Clancy did some biographical work in partnership with various US Generals. One of these books was written with Gen Tony Zinni (Ret) and while the entire book provides a warriors perspective on various conflicts, in light of the current war between Irsael and Hamas, I thought the following comments by Simon Peres to be insightful.

General Zinni, [Peres said], you're going to find three kinds of people in this business.

At this time Zinni was a special envoy for the United States to Israel and the Palestinian Authority (2001-2003). He was in Israel to make another attempt and resolving the situation between the Palestinians and Israelis.

First, you're going to find the righteous. Don't waste your time with them. You'll find them on both sides, and they're always going to appeal to the righteousness of their cause. You're never going to get anywhere with people like that. There's no negotiating with righteousness. Yes, it's their right to believe what they believe. But you're never going to change them. They interpret facts from their religious angle, and the ignore any facts that don't support that.

I've seen this perspective from a number of Traditional Catholics, especially the 'resistance' types. I think it is tied to the cognitive dissonance they experience if they admit that they are wrong.

The second group you're going to meet .. are the collectors or arguments, the debaters. You see them on TV with all the talking heads. They're going to outdebate the other guy and score points. But where making real progress toward peace is concerned, these people are useless. If you want to get into the debate for academic purposes, that's fine. But it serves no other purpose.

I haven't had the pleasure to meet too many people of this ilk. Those I have encountered don't make progress during the debate, but at least one came to realise the validity of at least some of the arguments on the SSPX... after a few years.

The third group you're going to meet are the ones that count. These are the ones who want to figure out a solution on the ground. These are the ones who ask themselves over and over: "How the hell are we going to make this ghastly situation work and get out of this terrible nightmare? Focus on theme... and focus on what needs to be done and then get it done.

So, I would put forward that the SSPX, as an organization, falls into this last category. They are willing to look for a way to work within the Church provided they didn't have to compromise on things that would be tied to denying the faith. This upset the previous groups (Hardline Trads / Mods and Academics) immensely.

The first, I believe, because it transgressed their assumptions about the nature of the Church and the Crisis in which it finds itself. This applies equally to the Mad Trads as well as the Mad Mods.

The second because it didn't agree with their theories and would upset the academic history of the conflict between Rome and the SSPX.

Suffice to say that none of those groups were happy when it seemed that the SSPX was going to get a no-compromise agreements. Alas and luckily, it didn't happen as Pope Francis would have torn it up anyway and we'd (SSPX Trads et al) would be back where we started or perhaps in a worse place.

Zinni went on to write that it was the best advice he got in Israel.

I think that this last statement resonates for SSPX Trads, it wasn't that the deal was bad, but that the compromose (ie Mantra) was resinstated and the Pope didn't have the strength or will to resist it.

So all we need now is a young Pope who has the desire, strength, will and commitment to find a solution "on the ground".

Time to start praying for Pope Francis I to save his soul and for the election of a Great and Holy Pontiff after the timely death of his predecessor.

For the Palestinians, while I believe an enmasse conversion to Catholicism will aid the situation, the emotions cloud the line between was is dogma, doctrine and opinion, making it a difficult problem to solve.

P^3

Another Perspective

EWTN:Don’t Forget What the Israel-Hamas War Is About

"Father, Should I Attend That Mass?" Advice on Attending Non-SSPX Latin Masses

+ JMJ I see that the 'resistors' are in a tizzy because Fr. Robinson used them as an example instead of the sedevacantists. What is interesting is that you can apply the exact same reasons against going to a sede mass as that of the 'resistors'. Namely: On the other extreme are those situations where an SSPX priest knows that a certain non-SSPX traditionalist venue is a grave danger to the faith . Frankly, most, if not all, of the Resistance Masses would fall into this category. In many cases, the behavior of these priests has been and continues to be scandalous, by their (A) spirit, their (B) preaching, and their indiscriminate conferral of the (C) priesthood and (D) episcopacy. To attend a Mass with such ongoing scandals poses a serious danger to the souls of the faithful. Yep, looking at A,B,C and D the shoe fits. On this basis the "resistors" = "sedevacantists". P^3 Courtesy of SSPX.org A companion article to a recent "Questions with ...

Correcting Caricatures of the SSPX

+ JMJ Introduction First, a little background on the FSSP St. John Vianney Chapel in Mission Hill Kansas. After the 1988 consecrations and the foundation of the FSSP there was a consistent trend of Dioceses allowing the SSPX to run chapels and churches near SSPX locations. As with any 'organizational change' there were those who didn't agree with the change and no longer sought the sacraments from the SSPX. I heard from friends that in that era there was a lot of anger and tension (on both sides) between the St. Mary's SSPX and Mission Hill FSSP. Second, there have been caricatures of the SSPX position (some are evident below) in which personal opinions of SSPX priests and laity are taken as the official position or conflated with those of sedevacantists or 'resistance'. Recent Perspectives of the SSPX Position In the shadow of the consecrations a fever pitch accusations and opinions how surfaced - many of which include caricatures of the SSPX positions, of w...

SSPX: Why Is the SSPX So Criticized?

+ JMJ As long as you are ok with what happens in other Catholic Churches, Traditional Catholics will be left 'alone'. This is a paraphrase of words spoken by an Archbishop to Traditional Catholics (with a sprinkling of SSPX) who had requested the Traditional Latin Mass under Summorum Pontificum. This reflects that attitude of the Church towards anyone who takes issue with some of the ambiguities of Vatican II and the post-conciliar magisterium. If you reject the papacy but are ok with V2, the New Mass, and what Rome has stated since 1965 - then you are welcome. Question some of the more abiguous statements and ask for Rome to realise that a circle is not a square - then you are in for a world of hurt. This is where the SSPX exists and has existed from almost its very first moments. Pointing out contradictions with previous magisterium is not acceptable - under any condition. Why? Because it will cause the whole V2 house of cards to fall. I guess only when the contradic...

Stories: Early Days of Tradition Part 8 - Convention Centre Chapel

+ JMJ I came to Tradition a few years after they had bought a chapel. My wife told me of the earlier years when Fr. Normandin would come to town and Mass would be held in a room at the convention centre. He'd start by blessing the room and then proceed with Mass. This went on for a while before the one of the faithful found a small hall that would suit just fine. They pooled their money and bought the building. Then came the work as the retiree's refinished the floor, setup the sactuary. Oh, did I mention that I heard that the hall had been used by a motorcycle gang? The floor needed a lot of work. I remember seeing pictures of the founders working to make the hall into a fitting place for the Sacrifice of the Mass. That little chapel would be a refuge like many others serviced by Fr. Normandin. From Thunderbay, Ontrario to Nanaimo, British Columbia - the SSPX chapels are all the results of Fr. Normandin's missionary work in those desperate times. Without h...

How many more must die for the throne? or How to combat FUD!

+ JMJ How many more must die for the throne? (Movie Quote: Prince Caspian) The Spread of Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt I've seen a lot of FUD spreading across the intergnat on various stats etc. So let's put this in context ... especially the perspective of those people in positions of authority who need to make decisions to protect the lives of their citizens. Yep, this is going to be that type of post. Like it or not the leaders of our governments have their authority from God. So, as Catholics should know, you need to have a very good reason to deliberately disobey the orders of their superiors. This is basic St. Thomas Aquinas ... so don't blame me for discussing things from a Catholic perspective. The leaders of our countries have taken action to protect the vulnerable of our countries. As much as the young and not-so-young may whine and complain - I have to ask how many more of our elderly have to die? What the armchair virologists and ec...

Tradicat

Search This Blog