What Can Traditional Catholics Learn From The Israeli

What Can Traditional Catholics Learn From The Israeli - Hamas Conflict???

JMJ

The Conflict

From my perspective, the Hamas / Israeli conflict is, at its core, a religious conflict that is buried beneath decades of rights, wrongs, stones, grenades, bullets, missiles, bombs, fighting and death.

Lots of death.

I've read "Son of Hamas" that provided a good perspective of the situation, specifically that there are "good" and "bad" people on both sides of the conflict.

Let's be clear, the "good" people are not the ones who act from a position of cruelty to kidnap, beat, rape, and kill civilians.

The recent events show the Hamas "soldiers" being guilty of these actions. From the "Son of Hamas" and Wikipedia (link) we have older accounts of Israeli soldiers being guilty of the similar actions.

So this is a situation where, from a cultural perspective (Edgar Schein link) deep and enduring assumptions have formed. Anything that contradicts or threatens these assumptions will create a strong emotional response and because of these emotions is at risk of being disregarded.

I recently watched some videos from a couple of months ago where people, Gazans I assumed, were asked if they would accept proof of Israeli civilization from archaeological sources. They denied the existence, said it couldn't exist etc. The denial of reality is a hallmark of Cognitive Dissonance and irrational behaviour of trying to recast reality to our perception instead of accepting it as reality and amending our ideas.

A Perspective from Tom Clancy's Battle Ready

Tom Clancy did some biographical work in partnership with various US Generals. One of these books was written with Gen Tony Zinni (Ret) and while the entire book provides a warriors perspective on various conflicts, in light of the current war between Irsael and Hamas, I thought the following comments by Simon Peres to be insightful.

General Zinni, [Peres said], you're going to find three kinds of people in this business.

At this time Zinni was a special envoy for the United States to Israel and the Palestinian Authority (2001-2003). He was in Israel to make another attempt and resolving the situation between the Palestinians and Israelis.

First, you're going to find the righteous. Don't waste your time with them. You'll find them on both sides, and they're always going to appeal to the righteousness of their cause. You're never going to get anywhere with people like that. There's no negotiating with righteousness. Yes, it's their right to believe what they believe. But you're never going to change them. They interpret facts from their religious angle, and the ignore any facts that don't support that.

I've seen this perspective from a number of Traditional Catholics, especially the 'resistance' types. I think it is tied to the cognitive dissonance they experience if they admit that they are wrong.

The second group you're going to meet .. are the collectors or arguments, the debaters. You see them on TV with all the talking heads. They're going to outdebate the other guy and score points. But where making real progress toward peace is concerned, these people are useless. If you want to get into the debate for academic purposes, that's fine. But it serves no other purpose.

I haven't had the pleasure to meet too many people of this ilk. Those I have encountered don't make progress during the debate, but at least one came to realise the validity of at least some of the arguments on the SSPX... after a few years.

The third group you're going to meet are the ones that count. These are the ones who want to figure out a solution on the ground. These are the ones who ask themselves over and over: "How the hell are we going to make this ghastly situation work and get out of this terrible nightmare? Focus on theme... and focus on what needs to be done and then get it done.

So, I would put forward that the SSPX, as an organization, falls into this last category. They are willing to look for a way to work within the Church provided they didn't have to compromise on things that would be tied to denying the faith. This upset the previous groups (Hardline Trads / Mods and Academics) immensely.

The first, I believe, because it transgressed their assumptions about the nature of the Church and the Crisis in which it finds itself. This applies equally to the Mad Trads as well as the Mad Mods.

The second because it didn't agree with their theories and would upset the academic history of the conflict between Rome and the SSPX.

Suffice to say that none of those groups were happy when it seemed that the SSPX was going to get a no-compromise agreements. Alas and luckily, it didn't happen as Pope Francis would have torn it up anyway and we'd (SSPX Trads et al) would be back where we started or perhaps in a worse place.

Zinni went on to write that it was the best advice he got in Israel.

I think that this last statement resonates for SSPX Trads, it wasn't that the deal was bad, but that the compromose (ie Mantra) was resinstated and the Pope didn't have the strength or will to resist it.

So all we need now is a young Pope who has the desire, strength, will and commitment to find a solution "on the ground".

Time to start praying for Pope Francis I to save his soul and for the election of a Great and Holy Pontiff after the timely death of his predecessor.

For the Palestinians, while I believe an enmasse conversion to Catholicism will aid the situation, the emotions cloud the line between was is dogma, doctrine and opinion, making it a difficult problem to solve.

P^3

Another Perspective

EWTN:Don’t Forget What the Israel-Hamas War Is About

The Catholic Church and the Rule of Law- Part II: Dr. John Lamont

+ JMJ This is the second article from Dr. Lamont from his lecture given in May 2014. P^3 Source Part A: Society of St. Hugh of Cluny Source Part B: Society of St. Hugh of Cluny 8 May2014 The Catholic Church and the Rule of Law- Part II By John Lamont To understand how the Jesuit conception of obedience departed from earlier conceptions, it is helpful to compare it with the teaching of St. Thomas on obedience. The fundamental difference between the two is that St. Thomas considers the proper object of obedience to be the precept of the superior (2a2ae q. 104 a. 2 co., ad 3). Obedience that seeks to forestall the expressed will of the superior does not bear on what the superior wants or thinks in general, but only on what the superior intends to command. St. Ignatius’s lowest degree of obedience, which he does not consider to be virtuous, is thus what St. Thomas considers to be the only form of obedience. St. Thomas holds that St. Ignatius’s alleged higher forms of o...

Open Letter to Cardinal Gantin - July 6, 1988

There has been some discussion (read lots) about the term 'Conciliar Church'. I have posted this letter written by the Superior General and District Superiors of the SSPX after the 1988 Consecrations. Of particular interest is that the 'Conciliar Church' being referred to as a system. My paraphrase would be that the SSPX regards the 'conciliar Church' as an error within the Church. Source Open Letter to Cardinal Gantin Prefect of the Congregation for Bishops

Morning and Evening and other sundry Prayers

+ JMJ Along the theme of P^3 (Prayer, Penance, Patience), and for my own reference ... here is a collection of Morning and Evening prayers from the Ideal Daily Missal along with some additional prayers. In this crisis of the Church, I do not think it is possible to do too much prayer, penance and have patience. P^3

Rome and the SSPX - Version 2026 Part 6b: Principles and Rules for Surviving this Crisis of the Catholic Church (Principle 1)

+ JMJ Principle 1: Realize that something is amiss in the Catholic Church The world in which I had my Traditional Awakening, is one in which practically anything pre-Conciliar such as liturgy, doctrinc, and even dogmas are either suppressed, ignored or re-framed to be acceptable to the ‘world’. What is more, the people adhering to these pre-conciliar teachings and liturgy are persecuted by other members of the Catholic Church. The things that non-Trads say about Trads can be quite extreme. For example, accusations against Traditionalists include that they are: A revival of the Jansenists (link) , Schismatics, Heretics, Uncharitable, Lefebrists Radicals Integrists When one group of Catholics is persecuted by the others for simply wanting to live as Catholics before them did for generations … well something is wrong. Further, we need to realize that when what was previously condemned is now promoted and what was previously promoted as the trut...

Forget the Reformation - It is time for Abrogation - Louie Verrecchio

Mr. Verrecchio has pointed out one solution to this crisis that is a dream of many Traditional Catholics of my acquaintance: The complete obliteration of the Novus Ordo Missae. If this were to occur, undoubtedly a revolt would occur within the Church, but the battle lines would be much clearer. I assume that a lot of material heretics would make the transition to being formal heretics. P^3 Prayer Penance Patience Courtesy of Louie Verrecchio A recent article by Fr. Thomas Kocik on the New Liturgical Movement website, Reforming the Irreformable? , is getting some well-deserved attention in traditional circles. (Do yourself a favor and read it in its entirety if you haven’t already.)

Tradicat

Search This Blog