Skip to main content

Should Traditional Catholics Fear Donum Veritatis? Part B (Long Rambling Answer)

 +
JMJ

 

Tradical's Rambling Thoughts

I think this comes down to three questions:

  1. Is the Novus Ordo Missae (NOM) valid? 
  2. Is it licit? 
  3. What does Donum Veritatis have to do with it?

The first question is easy to answer: With the usual conditions the NOM is valid.  (See this link)

The second question is a little trickier: Is the NOM licit? 

Does it mean that it is a duly promulgated law of the Catholic Church? Short answer - probably in the formal / knowable sense. There's was a lot of arguments about this, focusing on whether or not it was a good law, but none of them really seemed to provide a definitive answer. The definitive answer will probably be given in a hundred years or so.😎

Does it mean that it doesn't contradict Church Teaching? Short answer - as promulgated it doesn't.  Likewise there's been a lot of argument about this as well.  I have yet to see someone identify a passage from the promulgated copy of the NOM that EXPLICITLY contradicts the Catholic Faith. Every argument that I've seen requires an interpretation / inference.  So the contradictions are a result of either the absence or ambiguity of some element ergo not explicit.

Does it mean it is a good expression of the Catholic Faith and Doctrines concerning the Sacrifice of the Mass, Original Sin, Salvation etc.  Objectively compared with the Tridentine Mass, we KNOW the answer is a resounding NOPE.

Now about Donum Veritatis

First, this document is directed to the Theologians and their obligation of adherence to Catholic Truth.  In other words, they were doing what they've been doing for decades, calling into question Infallible Church Teaching.

27. Even if the doctrine of the faith is not in question, the theologian will not present his own opinions or divergent hypotheses as though they were non-arguable conclusions. Respect for the truth as well as for the People of God requires this discretion (cf. Rom 14:1-15; 1 Cor 8; 10: 23-33 ) . For the same reasons, the theologian will refrain from giving untimely public expression to them.

Second, concerning the Infallibility of the Church etc, they are 'basically' re-iterating the Teaching of the Church of Infallibility. Which will be uncomfortable for some, but not for me. The key point is that when it comes to a positive infallible statement, there needs to be a definitive requirement to believe something.  Since V2 there's been a lot of  "let's not and say we did" going on, especially about the Mass.  For example after the promulgation of the NOM, it was said that the Tridentine Mass was abrogated.   We finally know from Summorum Pontificum ... that we were right ... the TLM was NEVER abrogated.  Yay Us!



 So does the acceptance of the NOM by the majority of bishops mean it is valid law, licit etc.  Nope.  

First, the validity of a law is independent of the will of the governed.  There are criteria that can be assessed and if they are met, objectively, the law was promulgated.

Second, the 'goodness' of a particular law is likewise independent of the perception of the governed. There are again objective criteria for judging whether the NOM as promulgated Good, Indifferent, or Evil.  The answer objectively is meh. The NOM is a banal on the spot fabrication (guess who I'm paraphrasing) the doesn't explicitly contradict the Teaching of the Catholic Church, nor does it reinforce the central Teachings.  It is an ambiguous rite.  In this it is dangerous as it does not reinforce Church Teaching putting the weight on the shoulders of the Faithful.  If the faithful don't know their faith then it would be a catastrophe ... oh wait where have I been for the last 50 years?

The same criteria can be applied to the NOM as PRACTICED.  I've attended many NOMs the would objectively be deemed irreverent and sacrilegious. In other words - bad and this behaviour tolerated or encouraged.

Now, I've heard converts say that the NOM is so Catholic ... when compared with the protestant rites.  

That is the wrong comparison.  

You need to put it in context. Horrible Protestant vs NOM and vs the Tridentine Mass.

Objectively, only one of these is explicit about the Teachings of the Catholic Church and it isn't the NOM :-)

Lastly, the argument seems to be a restatement that the Church's infallibility extends to Disciplinary Laws (ie. Liturgy).  I posted an article by Fr. Scott on this topic here (link).  As noted, the discipline can't be contrary but it sure can be inadequate.

  Inasmuch as in her general discipline, i.e., the common laws imposed on all the faithful, the Church can prescribe nothing that would be contrary to the natural or the Divine law, nor prohibit anything that the natural or Divine law would exact.…It is quite permissible, however, to inquire how far this infallibility extends, and to what extent, in her disciplinary activity, the Church makes use of the privilege of inerrancy granted her by Jesus Christ when she defines matters of faith or morals.

Nota Bene: "... prescribe nothing that would be contrary ..."  Something ambiguous is not contrary but could be interpreted as such.  Hence the NOM and the excising of the filioque from the Ukrainian Catholic Creed.

 To sum up:

  1. The habitual error of the Bishops et al does not invoke the infallibility of the Catholic Church. If it did, we would all be Arian.
  2. The Pope and Bishops have to make a deliberate act in regard to teaching infallibly and Donum Veritatis is basically restating Church Teaching.
  3.  The NOM is a valid, ambiguous rite of the Catholic Church but we don't have to 'accept' is as something that it isn't, meaning a 'good' expression of the Catholic Faith.

 

Comments

  1. What a treat! I deleted my comment as I thought I would derail the discussion and I come back to this! Thank you so much!

    ReplyDelete
  2. Tradical,

    I posted a question (which is still unapproved as I am writing this) on another thing about Donum Veritatis. You can disregard this as I realize that I was misled. I was under the impression that the document said that the *pope* couldn't err on matters of prudence habitually. But indeed, the conservative I saw online seems to have been gravely mistaken. The document does not say that, but rather says that the Church's Magisterium cannot be habitually mistaken. This served as an important lesson for me to always read and re-read the document the debate is focused on. I think this is an example of conservatives reading something into a document. The document says nothing about the Pope's personal infallibility applying to habitual prudential decisions, but they want it to say that to ease their consciences. Indeed your post here still stands firm.

    ReplyDelete

Post a Comment

Popular posts from this blog

News Roundup: October 19, 2026

 + JMJ Well ... I was looking in my blog drafts and found this list from after my News is an Addiction post. So ... yep ... not totally able to disconnect from the news world at this point.  Frankly, I haven't read all of these articles - they catch my eye as I check for SSPX news regarding the exco's etc. So let's consider these topics as part of a higher level chronicle. They may not be key inflection points but helps to understand the flow of the world as perceived by the authors and myself who captured them as a snapshot in time. P^3 1 Popes Past Present and Future Benedict XVI and the Reforms of the Second Vatican Council: Re-Catholicizing the Liturgy—Part I - Adoremus RORATE CÆLI: France: Pope Lays Down the Law on Euthanasia RORATE CÆLI: "I went to France to preach the Gospel -- the Defense of Life is something that the Church believes very deeply" RORATE CÆLI: Image of the Day: the Pope at the Rebuilt Notre-Dame de Paris RORATE CÆLI: Leo XIV and the Place...

The Debt Canadian Traditional Catholics Owe to Fr. Yves Normandin (RIP)

 + JMJ On this All Souls day, I'd like to remind all Traditional Catholics in Canada the debt that they owe to Fr. Yves Normandin (RIP). Fr. Normandin stepped into the breach in the 1970's offering the Tridentine Mass across Canada for close to a decade before returning to his diocese for a number years before returning to the SSPX. I had the grace to visit him in Quebec twice and each time left with a greater appreciation of the fruits of his efforts. All of us 'old-timers' probably remembers Masses in Chapels, Homes, Halls, Funeral Homes, and event convention centres. I make the assertion that this laid the ground for all the Traditional Mass Communities, SSPX, FSSP, Diocesan and others. Probably a pretty safe assertion! In addition to praying for the repose of the Soul of Fr. Normandin, I'd ask you also pray for the repose of the soul of his Mother.  I remember seeing her picture once and everyone has a Mom and she is worthy of our prayers for producing such a so...

Morning and Evening and other sundry Prayers

+ JMJ Along the theme of P^3 (Prayer, Penance, Patience), and for my own reference ... here is a collection of Morning and Evening prayers from the Ideal Daily Missal along with some additional prayers. In this crisis of the Church, I do not think it is possible to do too much prayer, penance and have patience. P^3

SSPX: Requiescat in Pace - Nov. Devotions

 + JMJ Recently, the St. Gertrude prayer was recommended to me and given my devotion to the Holy Souls in Purgatory, I thought it a good inclusion in the morning prayers and post it here for as a reminder for November - the Month of the Holy Souls. P^3 Courtesy of SSPX.org “Forget not the dead and hasten to pray for them!” - such is the Church's recommendation, beautifully summarized by St. Augustine. In Purgatory until the End of the World Our Lady Herself referred to Purgatory when, at the first Fatima apparition in May 1917, she was asked by Lucia about the souls of two young village girls who had recently died. The Virgin answered that the first one, Maria das Nevas, who died when about 16 years of age, was in Heaven. But of Amelia, a young lady of 18 years at her death, "will be in purgatory until the end of the world.” The disclosure about Amelia’s prolonged period of expiation never fails to shock and trouble. We are so easily misled to believe that Heaven is our natura...

The News is an Addiction ...

 + JMJ People seem to be mesmerised by train wrecks.   They just can't turn away as the disaster creeps forward along train tracks towards the crossing where a car, truck, bus, trailer awaits its destruction. Trads have been watching the train wreck that is this crisis of the Catholic Church for decades. The trade war between the Canada and the US has reminded me that the news is addictive.   The first time I was addicted what from 2009 to  2014 when I was closely following the Rome / SSPX discussions.  I was at work watching a live-stream as Bishop Fellay disappeared into the Vatican. The lead-up to this moment had been intense as the 'resistance' got freaked out and the cultural cracks between doctrine and conspiracy theory widened. In the decade since then other things have emerged, wars, rumours of wars, conspiracies, celebrity Catholics etc. Now we have a new addiction and its name is Trump. Lately, no matter how much I try, I find myself wonderin...