Skip to main content

Should Traditional Catholics Fear Donum Veritatis? Part A (Short Answer)

Image
By
 +
JMJ

 

 Murrax brought up an interesting question in a comment here.

... do you have any advice when talking to conservative Catholics who use the document "Donum Veritatis" to say that the liturgical reform is valid and licit because it has been accepted by post-Vatican 2 popes and bishops. The relevant passage is this: "But it would be contrary to the truth, if, proceeding from some particular cases, one were to conclude that the Church's Magisterium can be habitually mistaken in its prudential judgments, or that it does not enjoy divine assistance in the integral exercise of its mission."

Tradical's Short Answer

If Murrax's opponent believes that the acceptance by post-V2 popes and bishops makes something right,then they should be Arians. During that crisis, the vast majority of bishops were Arian and the pope ... well that's a story for another day. 

But in Donum Veritatis they are invoking a degree of infallibility, so in a way the modern /conservative Catholic's argument is the flip side of that of the Sedevacantists. 

Whereas the Sedevacantists say that the Catholic Church is Infallible and V2 / Novus Ordo Missae is obviously flawed, therefore it wasn't the Catholic Church that promulgated it. 

On the obverse, modern Catholics say the Catholic Church is infallible therefore our interpretation is flawed.

Both are wrong.

First, there are different types of protection provided to the Church by the Holy Ghost. So for example, Ott states that:   

Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma - Ott

 

This however, doesn't mean that the popes and bishops can't make mistakes and big ones.  For example, take the decimation of the Christeros.

 Second, just because something is accepted by popes and bishops doesn't mean it is an infallible truth. It has to be an act of the Magisterium as noted above. A moral unanimity of bishops and pope would have to declare that it is good and licit AND that you have to believe it or else cease being Catholic. Haven't seen this happen yet dude!

Ibid 

 

Third, the type of infallibility ascribed to these acts (council and NOM) is not what most people think it is. I posted an article by Fr. Scott on this topic here (link).  As noted, the discipline can't be contrary but it sure can be inadequate.

  Inasmuch as in her general discipline, i.e., the common laws imposed on all the faithful, the Church can prescribe nothing that would be contrary to the natural or the Divine law, nor prohibit anything that the natural or Divine law would exact.…It is quite permissible, however, to inquire how far this infallibility extends, and to what extent, in her disciplinary activity, the Church makes use of the privilege of inerrancy granted her by Jesus Christ when she defines matters of faith or morals.
Nota Bene: "... prescribe nothing that would be contrary ..."  Something ambiguous is not contrary but could be interpreted as such.  Hence the NOM and the excising of the filioque from the Ukrainian Catholic Creed.
 
P^3



Labels:

Comments

Post a Comment

Popular posts from this blog

Is it sinful to attend the Novus Ordo (New Mass) - Is it Sinful to Not Attend the Novus Ordo on Sunday?

By
+ JMJ A non-SSPX Catholic is upset over the SSPX statements on not attending the Novus Ordo Missae. Ladies and gentlemen, what the SSPX, or at least its website editor, is advocating is a mortal sin against the Third Commandment.  Unless the priest deviates from the language of the Sacramentary, the consecration, and thus the rest of Mass is to be considered valid.  No one may elect not to attend Mass simply because abuses are occurring therein.  Might I suggest that such absenteeism is its own abuse?  The Third Commandment binds under mortal sin.  Father So-And-So from the SSPX has no authority whatsoever to excuse attendance at Mass, be that Mass ever so unpalatable. Source:Restore DC Catholicism Well, this is interesting. First why does the SSPX issue this statement? Because it is sinful to put your faith in danger by attending a protestant service.  It is likewise dangerous to put your faith in danger by attending a protestantized mass (ie the Novus Ordo Missae
Post a Comment
Read more

Morning and Evening and other sundry Prayers

By
+ JMJ Along the theme of P^3 (Prayer, Penance, Patience), and for my own reference ... here is a collection of Morning and Evening prayers from the Ideal Daily Missal along with some additional prayers. In this crisis of the Church, I do not think it is possible to do too much prayer, penance and have patience. P^3
Post a Comment
Read more

Catholic Culture - The Edgar Schein Model Analysis of the Pre and Post Conciliar Culture

By
 + JMJ    So ... I was thinking ... I've used Edgar Schein's (RIP) organizational cultural model (link ) in my research  ... why not apply it in a comparison between the Catholic Organizational Culture - PRE and POST Second Vatican Culture? Of course, this will be from my own perspective, I'm certain that others will think differently. 😁 Also, apologies for a rather long article. Graphic: https://mutomorro.com/edgar-scheins-culture-model/ Below is a quick mapping of the cultural factors that I could think of.  Since the Church is vast and composed of millions of Souls, it is necessarily a limited cultural map.  Yet, I think it will still be useful to assess what has changed since the Second Vatican Council. Additional Reading:  5 enduring management ideas from MIT Sloan’s Edgar Schein | MIT Sloan Artifacts Artifacts are tangible and observable aspects of the culture being examined.  All organizations have them. Walmart has their Walmart chant, Charismatics have their spe
Post a Comment
Read more

Holy Ghost vs Holy Spirit

By
+ JMJ Something that always and I do mean always causes me to cringe interiourly is when non-Trad Catholics use the words "Holy Spirit" instead of "Holy Ghost". First, this is a natural response because of long usage of "Holy Ghost" as soon as I hear the word "Holy" in a prayer, my brain automatically is prepped to hear "Ghost" afterwards.  This creates a short period of interiour dissonance (discomfort). Now the question I would like to ponder today is whether or not there is a difference and whether or not there is a right way vs wrong way.
Post a Comment
Read more