Skip to main content

Tradical Commentary on: Restore DC Catholicism: SSPX And Austrilian Bishops - Two Different Errors

+
JMJ




An interesting thing has happened on the discussion that prompted my article on whether it is sinful to attend the Novus Ordo Missae.  The blog owner of RDCC has shut down discussion by locking the article.

That is their prerogative, but I am puzzled as to why? Perhaps it has something to do with some of the latter comments.

  1. They didn't believe the teaching on intention with regards to confecting the Sacraments.  This is not the first time I've experienced incredulity on this topic (reference articles). Really this isn't about what they believe but the truth.
  2. They seem to believe that the objections to the Novus Ordo Missae are simply about "overly delicate sensibilities".  In response to this I am reblogging a number of articles by the SSPX.
  3. Perhaps it was the comment made by Bishop Schneider, a currently well revered hero (who deserved the accolades) but apparently has said something similar to the SSPX.  
I suspect that it is more about Bishop Schneider's comments than my own because the blogger's response was: 
I am praying that this was a momentary lapse on his part. However, the SSPX's lapse is more than momentary.
I'm not certain which article they are talking about ... but here's summary from OnePeterFive by Timothy Flanders on what Bishop Schneider had to say on the matter at the Catholic Identity Conference:
The mouthpiece of Tradition, Bishop Athanasius Schneider, formed the centerpiece of the conference, delivering the keynote address as well as a short talk against Communion in the hand. He has been increasingly vocal against the Vatican II springtime, which has been a welcome relief of honestly facing the crisis as it has been continuing to unravel for decades.

His comments on the liturgy were salient on this. He said the New Mass is “substantially a clear weakening of the truth of the sacrificial character of the Mass.” It represents a “shift to the Protestant meaning and sense of the meal … in the text [of the Mass] itself.” Indeed, “The Novus Ordo is the Extraordinary Form.

He observed that even Paul VI admitted that Communion in the hand would indeed weaken the faith but then allowed it in the same document. The good bishop compared this to a doctor who says to his patient about a treatment, “This will harm you” and then decides to give it to him anyway.

He censured Communion in the hand emphatically: “We cannot use the same gesture for the Holy Sacrament as common food.” It has a deeply psychological effect, eroding our faith in the Real Presence. Instead, we must receive Holy Communion on the tongue and on our knees. Like little children who cannot feed themselves, we receive the Holy Sacrament from Holy Mother Church.Source: 1P5

In the final analysis this emerging from this crisis requires Catholics to accept the reality of the situation.

... and ensure that their response is Catholic in all aspects.

P^3


=========== Partial  Restore DC Catholicism Thread ===========

  1. Perhaps I missed this in the comments ... but ...

    Let's be clear - this is not about the Third Commandment - which requires us to keep the Lord's day. Which can be done in number of ways and is guaranteed by attending Mass.

    This <<< is >>> about the first precept of the Catholic Church - which requires us to "attend Mass on Sundays and holy days of obligation".

    There are a couple of problems with your article.

    First, the SSPX asserts that the Novus Ordo is valid with the normal conditions (form, matter and intention). What they do claim is that the Novus Ordo Mass, valid as it may be, constitutes a danger to the faith of those attending.

    Regarding your 'grin and bear it' approach.

    Second, validity is not the only criteria, the liturgy has a great importance and effect on those present. For example, you could attend a valid 'black mass', but it would obviously be sinful to do so.

    If the Novus Ordo Missae which you are attending, contains various abuses or worse - then you have an obligation to leave or protest the abuse right then and there. Otherwise you are potentially committing a sin of omission. If you have children with you, then you have to consider the effect on them and their faith as well as your own.

    Let's say that you find a perfect Novus Ordo Missae celebrated as promulgated.

    Meaning, Ad Orientem, in Latin, with no altar girls and no lay Eucharistic Ministers, with all the "smells and bells" etc.

    Then the argument is lesser but I would hold still applicable because the exclusions from the Novus Ordo Missae are comparable to reciting the Creed without the Filioque. While not explicitly heretical, it still leaves unsaid something that should said.

    P^3
    Replies


    1. A "valid black mass"? Defective intention would be present and invalidate that, so toss out that analogy. The SSPX's claim that the NO is inherently a danger to the attendees' faith is, at most, their opinion. Nowhere is their basis for any assumption that their opinion is sacrosanct, beyond question. What is a "danger to the faith" is the abstension from Mass if there are orthodox Masses around, be they NO or TLM.
    2. Before going into opinions, how about we confirm that:
      A. We are discussing the first precept of the Catholic Church
      B. In principle attendance at any Mass (NO or TLM) where there is sacrilege, heresy and other dangers to the Faith is not required on a Sunday or other Holy Day of Obligation.

      P^3
    3. Depends on what constitutes "danger to the Faith" versus "going against overly delicate sensibilities".
    4.  
  2. It appears they have a pretty good basis for their "opinion" that the NO is a danger to the Faith.

    Mass attendance has gone from something like 65% to 24% under the Novus Ordo....and the percentage of Catholics who go to Mass AND actually believe in the Real Presence is even less. And don't ignore the precipitous drop in vocations...(except in...wait for it....Traditional orders).

    "Lex orandi, lex credendi" isn't some trite cliche.

    Still awaiting your equally robust condemnation of Bishop Schneider.
    Replies


    1. Don't hold your breath. I am praying that this was a momentary lapse on his part. However, the SSPX's lapse is more than momentary.

  3. Let's handle the first assertion first.

    The intention is to do what the Church does. In confecting the Eucharist all that is required is: A. Proper form (words), B. Matter (Bread & Wine), C. Intention (to confect the Eucharist) D. A validly ordained priest.

    The intention to commit sacrilege after the fact is an intention that is separate from the act.

    More here: http://tradicat.blogspot.com/2017/04/form-matter-and-intention.html
    Replies


    1. That's a bit of a stretch that I don't believe.



Comments

Popular posts from this blog

The Curious Case of Steve Skojec and the Dangers of Deep Diving into the Crisis Sub-Titled: The Failings of Others

 + JMJ It's been a while now since Steve Skojec sold 1P5 and abandoned the Catholic Faith. I've been a 'Trad' since 1982 and in those 40+ years I seen this death-spiral before with a similar end point. It seems that anyone who jumps into the fray unprepared for the enormous task of righting wrongs will, eventually, become discouraged by not the task but the people who surround them.   I remember when Skojec complained of the treatment his family received from a traditional priest.  This seems to have been the start of the end for him. So what can we learn from the likes of Steve Skojec, Michael Voris (maybe?), Louie Verrecchio, Gerry Matatix and other celebrity Catholics? Probably quite a lot about what not to do. First, don't burn out on the crisis?  When you burn out, on work or anything else, little things assume a more greater importance than they are due.   This is one of my 'canary in the coal mine' signals that I've been stretching myself too thin

Thirty Days Prayer to Our Lady -

+ JMJ Providence has cast this prayer in my path twice in the last week.  I decided to post it here in order to have a copy handy. P^3 Prayer Penance Patience Source Intro Prayer With the condition of affairs in the cultural, political and physical world in a state of disarray we enter Lent - Ash Wednesday - February 25th - 2004 - more compelled then ever to pursue, diligently and faithfully, our personal road to holiness. It is a long, difficult path each of us treads, however, we do know the journey can be sweeter and more blessed if we travel it with others. Jesus has told us: "Wherever two or more are gathered in my name, I am with you." And there are many other biblical passages, as well, that urge us to love and help one another. A 'Thirty Day Prayer to the Blessed Virgin Mary ' was said by many Catholics during troubled times in their lives up until Vatican II. While looking through old stored away boxes, I came across a small white prayer b

Fr. Burfitt on Fr. Pfeiffer's Attempted Consecration

 + JMJ   Amidst the shadows cast by the publication of Traditionis Custodes, I am working on a map of the 'resistance' splinters to put their reaction in contrast with that of the SSPX.  In the midst of this, I just came across Fr. Burfitt letter on the attempted consecration. Breaking it down (see below)  items 2 and 3 are key.  Just as the consecrating bishop is 'doubtful', even if he hadn't muffed the first attempt, Fr. Pfeiffer remain doubtful and therefore this impacts those men is attempts to 'ordain'. There were rumours that Fr. Pfeiffer was seeking episcopal consecration for years as he cast about for various bishops (also doubtful) to help him achieve this goal. I wonder how he convinced the 'doubtful' bishop to provide (twice) the doubtful consecration. What a mess!  This creates a danger to the souls of his followers and wonder where it will end. Will he go full sede and have himself 'elected' pontiff as others have done before him

Communique about Avrille Dominicans - SSPX.org

+ JMJ Having completed the review of the 'Avrille' perspective, this communique from the French District Superior is perfectly timed. I believe that the 'resistance' has lost rationality and further argumentation simply results in their holding on to their false ideal all the more firmly. Pray much ... First, for them to acquiesce to the grace of humility in order to obtain a clear perspective on the principles involved. Second, that we may remain faithful to the Church, and Her Dogmas, Doctrines and Principles. Lest we become that which against we strove ... P^3 Courtesy of SSPX.org

Cathinfo and the 'resistance' perspective (updated with response to comment)

+ JMJ Matthew, the owner of Cathinfo - a resistance forum has posted a response to a person that indicated his reasons for continuing to go to the SSPX.