Skip to main content

Is the SSPX Schismatic like CMTV would like you to believe???

Image
By
+
JMJ

Updated: The comment received today made it worthwhile to both bump this post as well as to respond to it.

I think this is worth repeating for the benefit of Michael Voris et al.

Last year I decided to write to Cardinal Mueller for an explicit answer.

Here's my letter:




Note the way I worded the questions, are the three classes to be regarded as members of the Catholic Church. I didn't just list those actual members of the SSPX (Bishops, Priests, Brothers, Sister), the 3rd order members and those laity who simply attend the Mass Centres.

I wasn't all that hopeful of a direct and explicit answer ... I wasn't too surprised ...

... here's the reply:



So ... those who adhere to the SSPX are to be considered as 'not in full communion'. 

What does 'not in full communion' mean?  Does it mean they are in formal schism? 

Nope, because if they were - then the CDF would have answered directly with a yes or no.

They did not.

I realize that Michael Voris and CMTV will say that 'not in full communion' is code for schism.

Actually, if he had studied the documents of the Second Vatican Council, he will find that it doesn't really mean that - even though it is applied to those who formerly would be called or labelled as 'schismatic or heretical'. 

It means that there is communion, but something is lacking.  In short that the SSPX, like the various protestants and orthodox (following the Vatican II mantra) are part of the Church of Christ.  It's like a huge sliding scale.

So, since Michael Voris will not criticise the Pope, then he (and his minions) should stop calling the SSPX 'schismatic' and simply use the words 'not in full communion' or the handy acronym NIFC.  

This way they won't be making a judgement that is well beyond their competence to make (including the Cardinals that are secretly whispering the contrary).

That would really solve a lot of problems for Michael Voris and CMTV.

P^3

Labels:

Comments

  1. AnonymousAugust 15, 2015 at 9:53 PM

    But the Vatican II mantra is incorrect. The laity who attend the SSPX Masses, and the SSPX members themselves are Catholics in communion with the Catholic Church.

    There really is no such thing as "full communion". The Church is one.

    -Andrew

    ReplyDelete
  2. TradicalAugust 16, 2015 at 4:54 PM

    Hi,

    Yes I was just making use of the phraseology currently 'employed' by Rome to prove a point. From Rome's point of view the descriptive title for the state of the sspx is 'not full communion'. This is, I agree, a highly ambiguous phrase that has been used to describe the state of the SSPX, protestants (heretics), and orthodox (schismatics) when all three are in objectively different.

    P^#

    ReplyDelete
  3. Jozaf the ThirdNovember 26, 2018 at 5:08 AM

    It is unfortunate that, by the document you have shown, the SSPX is officially declared "not in full communion with the Catholic Church." Pope Benedict XVI clarifies that the issue is not simply in the "disciplinary level" but also in the "doctrinal level." Thus, like the Protestants and the Orthodox, the SSPX has "no canonical status" and their ministers "do not legitimately exercise any ministry in the Church." Although they remain "part of the Church of Christ" as you say, they nonetheless are not in full communion with the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. Indeed, as St. Ambrose of Milan said, "ubi Petrus ibi Ecclesia, et ibi Ecclesia vita eterna."

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. TradicalNovember 27, 2018 at 10:50 PM

      This is nothing new. The Pope had already said this officially and we've always known the root issue is doctrine.

      However, you missed a few key distinctions.

      First the Protestants and Orthodox are not members of the Catholic Church having separated themselves respectively vis Heresy and Schism.

      The next distinction is whether or not the SSPX validly exercises a ministry via the Sacraments. The answer is simply yes.

      Finally, the 'not in full communion' is an ambiguous phrase. One cannot be 'partially' in the Catholic Church ... one either is or is not Catholic.

      P^3

      Delete

Post a Comment

Popular posts from this blog

The Curious Case of Steve Skojec and the Dangers of Deep Diving into the Crisis Sub-Titled: The Failings of Others

By
 + JMJ It's been a while now since Steve Skojec sold 1P5 and abandoned the Catholic Faith. I've been a 'Trad' since 1982 and in those 40+ years I seen this death-spiral before with a similar end point. It seems that anyone who jumps into the fray unprepared for the enormous task of righting wrongs will, eventually, become discouraged by not the task but the people who surround them.   I remember when Skojec complained of the treatment his family received from a traditional priest.  This seems to have been the start of the end for him. So what can we learn from the likes of Steve Skojec, Michael Voris (maybe?), Louie Verrecchio, Gerry Matatix and other celebrity Catholics? Probably quite a lot about what not to do. First, don't burn out on the crisis?  When you burn out, on work or anything else, little things assume a more greater importance than they are due.   This is one of my 'canary in the coal mine' signals that I've been stretching myself too thin
Post a Comment
Read more

Morning and Evening and other sundry Prayers

By
+ JMJ Along the theme of P^3 (Prayer, Penance, Patience), and for my own reference ... here is a collection of Morning and Evening prayers from the Ideal Daily Missal along with some additional prayers. In this crisis of the Church, I do not think it is possible to do too much prayer, penance and have patience. P^3
Post a Comment
Read more

What the heck is a congregation of "Pontifical Right"

By
+ JMJ In a discussion with a friend the question occurred to me that I didn't actually know was is involved in being a religious order of 'pontifical right'. I had a vague notion that this meant they reported to Rome as opposed to the local diocese. I'm also aware that, according to the accounts I have heard, the Archbishop received 'praise' and the written direction to incardinate priests directly into the SSPX.  This is interesting because it implies that the SSPX priests were no longer required to incardinate in the local diocese but in the SSPX. This is something that belongs to an order of 'pontifical right'. Anyway here's some definitions: Di diritto pontificio is the Italian term for “of pontifical right” . It is given to the ecclesiastical institutions (the religious and secular institutes, societies of apostolic life) either created by the Holy See or approved by it with the formal decree, known by its Latin name, Decretu
Post a Comment
Read more

Comparision of the Tridentine, Cranmer and Novus Ordo Masses

By
+ JMJ I downloaded the comparison that was linked in the previous article on the mass (here) . ... a very good reference! P^3 From: Whispers of Restoration (available at this link) . CHARTING LITURGICAL CHANGE Comparing the 1962 Ordinary of the Roman Mass to changes made during the Anglican Schism; Compared in turn to changes adopted in the creation of Pope Paul VI’s Mass in 1969 The chart on the reverse is a concise comparison of certain ritual differences between three historical rites for the celebration of the Catholic Mass Vetus Ordo: “Old Order,” the Roman Rite of Mass as contained in the 1962 Missal, often referred to as the “Traditional Latin Mass.”The Ordinary of this Mass is that of Pope St. Pius V (1570) following the Council of Trent (1545-63), hence the occasional moniker “Tridentine Mass.” However, Trent only consolidated and codified the Roman Rite already in use at that time; its essential form dates to Pope St. Gregory the Great (+604), in whose time the R
Post a Comment
Read more