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JMJ
After the Second Vatican Council there was a marked decline in many of the Catholic Orders with thousands of priests, nuns and brothers abandoning their religious life or in some cases being pushed out because they didn't want to 'adapt' to the modern age full of self-loathing.
As their numbers shrank, properties were sold or repurposed. I know of one Benedictine Convent built in the sixties that ended up being leased for non-Catholic purposes.
The Trappists were not immune to this hollowing out of Catholicism and monasteries were closed and sold off as their numbers vanished.
One monastery was visited by Traditional Catholics in the 80's, at which point the Monks had been gone for since the late 70's. The reason given was the encroachment of the nearby city.
In their move the Monks exhumed the bodies of the communities dead and moved them to their new location.
What they left behind was telling.
- A Statue of Our Lady, high up on a pedestal in the Church.
- Plaster Stations of the Cross in the relief style.
- A sacred linen was left in the open safe in the sacristy.
What does this have to do with Tradition?
Question:
Was the Catholic Church in decline before the second vatican council???
AI Overview
The Catholic Church was experiencing subtle signs of decline (like plateauing or slight drops in attendance in some areas) before Vatican II (1962-1965), but the major, sharp decline in Mass attendance and practice in Western countries appears to have begun after the Council, often linked to its implementation, though some argue pre-existing issues like secularism and internal theological shifts were already at play. Data suggests that while some decline started earlier (e.g., in Germany, France), the post-Vatican II era saw a distinct, sharper drop, especially in Catholic-majority nations, making it hard to fully separate the Council's intent from its implementation's impact.
Evidence for Pre-Vatican II Trends:
- Plateauing/Slight Drops: German statistics showed a drop from 50% to 45% attendance between 1950 and 1965.
- Pope Pius XII's Concerns: He recognized attendance issues and reformed the Easter liturgy to make it more accessible, aiming to boost participation.
- Early Signs in Europe: Some reports from Italy and Ireland in the late 1950s/early 1960s noted declining attendance, though these were sometimes suppressed or less widespread than later trends.
Evidence for Post-Vatican II Decline:
- Sharp Drop in Attendance: New economic studies show a sudden, significant drop in Catholic Mass attendance starting after Vatican II, relative to other denominations.
- Cultural Shift: The post-war secularization trend intensified, hitting Catholic countries harder, coinciding with the Council.
- Liturgical Changes: Many traditional Catholics felt alienated by the new vernacular Mass (Novus Ordo) and community-focused implementation, leading some to stop attending.
The Debate:
- Vatican II Triggered Decline: Many argue the Council's changes (liturgical, theological) were so radical to the average faithful that they caused a break, leading many to leave.
- Pre-existing Issues: Others suggest the Council was a response to existing problems, and the decline was due to broader cultural shifts, poor implementation, or internal theological slides that were already happening.
- In essence, while the Church wasn't in a perfect state before 1962, the dramatic shift in practice and membership appears directly tied to the years following the Council, making it a pivotal, though controversial, moment in modern Catholic history.
Question:
AI Overview
Historical Context: General Cistercian Decline
- External Challenges: Wars (Hundred Years' War, Thirty Years' War), the Protestant Reformation, the French Revolution, and secularization policies in various European countries led to the suppression, confiscation, and destruction of many monasteries.
- Internal Issues: The institution of "commendatory abbots", where abbacies were granted as political favors to external, often secular, nobles who simply collected revenues, severely damaged monastic discipline and financial stability. Geographic distances also weakened the system of mutual visitation and the authority of the General Chapter.
- Changing Society: From the 13th century onward, the rise of towns and mendicant orders (Franciscans, Dominicans) pushed the more isolated, rural Cistercians to the sidelines of society.
The Strict Observance (Trappist) Experience
- Rise and Growth: The OCSO was particularly successful in recovering after the French Revolution and experienced phenomenal growth well into the 20th century, reaching a peak of around 4,350 male religious in 1958.
- Modern Decline: Since the 1960s, the number of vocations has decreased, particularly in the Western world. This decline is often linked to the broader societal and ecclesiastical changes following the Second Vatican Council, including a shift in emphasis toward active ministry in some cases, which put pressure on the traditional balance of work, prayer, and reading.
- Current Challenges: The current challenges facing the OCSO in Western communities include aging populations and dwindling numbers, which puts a strain on the balance of monastic life and finances.
Areas of Growth
- Communities in Africa, Latin America, and Asia are growing faster than those in Europe and North America.
- The Order as a whole is focused on deepening its contemplative identity while addressing challenges of communion, participation (between monks and nuns, and different cultures), mission, and formation in a changing world.
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