Skip to main content

A Look Back - Negotiations with Rome 2001

+
JMJ

Casting our gaze back further to 2001


P^3



Source: SSPX Asia





Negotiations with Rome
by Msgr de Galarreta
with the permission of Fr. Puga, from the Ecône seminary.
June 3, 2001

Msgr Alfonso de Galarreta, one of the four bishops consecrated by Archbishop Lefebvre in June 1988, is presently Superieur of the Spain-Portugal District of the Priestly Society of Saint Pius X. Here are a few words taken from the homily given at the Seminary of Econe on 3rd June 2001. Bishop de Galarreta gave his personal position on the recent contacts of the Society of St Pius X with Rome. (Paragraph titles have been added) Following is an unofficial translation, by Fr. Anthony Chadwick (priest and professional French to English translator).

Rome Refuses
I would like to give my point of view concerning contacts we have had with Rome. Rome has given an official reply in writing where the two conditions on which we insisted are refused. From the beginning we wanted a discussion on the problems of the faith, the present apostasy, doctrine, theology, etc. The Roman authorities have given a practical orientation to our contacts, purely practical. This no longer really interested us because we knew where all this would end up. In this letter, therefore, the Vatican imposed implicitly the same old conditions: accept the Council, accept the New Mass, the new litugy. In brief: accept all the reforms and developments stemming from the Council. We are back at square one, you see. This is of course impossible to accept. They give us everything and take everything away: it is a fool's market. They propose to accept us as we are, but forbid us to oppose the reforms. For us it is precisely a condition sine qua non. We say to them, since you want to put yourselves in a purely practical point of view in leaving doctrine to one side, then, do you recognise us as we are and will you give us freedom to speak against all those things. They, on the other hand, impose the same condition but in the opposite direction! Therefore the fundamental problem is manifest! Naturally, we expected this.

The Danger of Believing that Rome offers us What they are not offering us 

It has to be said that we find that there are in Rome, among those who are interested in us, we could say essentially two different tendencies: those who are speculative modernists, more intellectual therefore more logical and coherent, also more sectarian. Then there are pragmatic modernists, more practical, who are obviously more conservative since they adapt to reality, and therefore more accomodating in our regard, but they are also less sincere, double faced. I speak objectively, not judging intentions, but looking at facts: as people are in reality, independently of intentions or desires. The great danger with us is not a question of letting up on doctrine - no-one is ready to let up on doctrine, this is out of the question - but that is not the problem. Our problem is not in this perspective, but to mistake our wishes for realities, to believe that the impossible is possible, and therefore to believe that Rome is offering what Rome is not offering us. This is now as clear as daylight, and no doubt is possible as they have just themselves imposed those conditions. The reality is as it is. We would like it to be otherwise, of course. It is a pity but that is how it is.

A New Mass Imposed on the Church by Practical Considerations

Therefore, at Rome, there is that more speculative modernist tendency and the other more practical tendency. Now, we must not forget that modernism was imposed on the Church by practical means. Look at the new mass for example, it was a group of theologians and liturgists, an elite, who concocted and created this new mass almost from nothing, and no-one wanted it! When Msgr Bugnini presented his normative mass to the bishops, after the Council, two years before the promulgation of the new mass, the majority rejected it. This was the same mass that Paul VI imposed because they had their idea, they had made a liturgy, a style of worship, in consequence with the new theology, with a new religion. So, to get this new mass accepted, they acted in practical terms, even though most of the faithful, priests and bishops did not want it. Therefore modernism was introduced into the Church by this practical way, not by conviction to begin with. Only the elite was rotten. In days of old, Cranmer acted in the same way to introduce protestantism into England. An identical situation.

Silencing the voice of Tradition?

That is what Rome is trying to do again. They give us everything, but you have to swallow the Council. It is like saying to the Police: you can talk against stealing, crime, etc., but you must not touch a single thief, not one criminal. You have to respect his rights and let him do what he wants. It would be just as good as saying: you can play at Don Quixote, go against the windmills, you can persecute intellects, in abstracto, but don't touch realities. No, we cannot do this. It is a problem of faith, as simple as that. It's not a question of people, obedience or charity, nor of respect or this or that - it's a problem of faith. Never will we accept a practical agreement that would be subject to the condition of silencing the voice of Tradition, the voice of the Catholic Faith. We can do nothing against truth but we must defend truth. We note: they ask us to be silent! Consequently our answer will be no. A door will meanwhile remain open to repeat our objections in doctrinal
matters of the faith.

Render to Rome even the Tesitmony of Truth


Some people could say: then there must be no contacts at all. I would say: no, or: it depends. It is a question of prudence. By principle, we ought to have them for it can happen that God may give His grace to some of them, we have no way of knowing. In this case, it is our duty to witness to truth and give the reason for our position and our attitude, this to Rome and elsewhere, but above all Rome...
+ Alfonso de Galarreta
Ecône, 3rd June 2001 

Comments

Popular posts from this blog

Comparision of the Tridentine, Cranmer and Novus Ordo Masses

+ JMJ I downloaded the comparison that was linked in the previous article on the mass (here) . ... a very good reference! P^3 From: Whispers of Restoration (available at this link) . CHARTING LITURGICAL CHANGE Comparing the 1962 Ordinary of the Roman Mass to changes made during the Anglican Schism; Compared in turn to changes adopted in the creation of Pope Paul VI’s Mass in 1969 The chart on the reverse is a concise comparison of certain ritual differences between three historical rites for the celebration of the Catholic Mass Vetus Ordo: “Old Order,” the Roman Rite of Mass as contained in the 1962 Missal, often referred to as the “Traditional Latin Mass.”The Ordinary of this Mass is that of Pope St. Pius V (1570) following the Council of Trent (1545-63), hence the occasional moniker “Tridentine Mass.” However, Trent only consolidated and codified the Roman Rite already in use at that time; its essential form dates to Pope St. Gregory the Great (+604), in whose time the R...

SSPX and the Resistance - A Comparison Of Ecclesiology

Shining the light of Church Teaching on the doctrinal positions of the SSPX and the Resistance. Principles are guides used to aid in decision making.  It stands to reason that bad principles will lead to bad decisions. The recent interactions between Rome and the SSPX has challenged a number of closely held cultural assumptions of people in both sides of the disagreement. This has resulted in cultural skirmishes in both Rome and the SSPX. Since it is the smaller of the two, the skirmishes have been more evident within the SSPX.  The cultural fault-line that Bishop Fellay crossed appears to be linked to two points of Catholic Doctrine: Ecclesiology and Obedience.  The cultural difference of view points is strong enough that it has resulted in the expulsion of a number of members.  It should also be noted that some other priests expelled since the beginning of the latest interactions (starting in 2000) held the same view points and have joined with the l...

If Pope Francis is bad - what about Pope St. John Paul II et al?

+ JMJ So here we are on the apparent cusp of yet another post conciliar Papal canonization. This time we have Pope's John-Paul I and Paul VI canonizations to 'look forward' to. This follows, obviously, on the heels of Pope St. John Paul II's canonization? So the first question that I usually encounter is: How is it possible, keeping in mind the doctrine on infallibility of canonizations (note doctrine not dogma), that Pope St. John Paul II is a Saint? First, what does it mean???  According to the doctrine of dogmatic facts - it is the universal opinion of Theologians that canonizations are infallible.  It means that they enjoy the beatific vision.  ... that's it.  That is the doctrine and it is at the level of universal opinion of theologians.  It is called a 'dogmatic fact'. That they made mistakes is obvious.  That the miracles seem to not be very miraculous is also a bit of an issue. Here's something to consider: The rush that surrou...

Spiritual Journey Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre - Extracts

+ JMJ I have posted these two chapters to provide context for the quote of: It is, therefore, a strict duty for every priest wanting to remain Catholic to separate himself from this Conciliar Church for as long as it does not rediscover the Tradition of the Church and of the Catholic Faith. P^3 Courtesy of SSPX.ca Chapter II The Perfections of God We ought to remember during this entire contemplation of God that we must apply all that is said of God to Our Lord Jesus Christ, Who is God. We cannot separate Jesus Christ from God. We cannot separate the Christian religion from Jesus Christ, Who is God, and we must affirm and believe that only the Catholic religion is the Christian religion. These affirmations have, as a result, inescapable conclusions that no ecclesiastic authority can contest: outside of Jesus Christ and the Catholic religion, that is, outsi...

Dogmas of the Catholic Faith (de fide) - Expanded Listing: Answer for Reader

 + JMJ  A reader asked the following question in the 2015 version of the article on the Dogmas of the Catholic Faith (link) : 117: "In the state of fallen nature it is morally impossible for man without Supernatural Revelation, to know easily, with absolute certainty and without admixture of error, all religious and moral truths of the natural order." Where can you find this in the documents of the Church? ( Link to comment )  Here's the reference from Ott: The citation that Ott provided was Denzinger 1786 and the source document is Dogmatic Consitution Concerning the Faith from the First Vatican Council (Papal Encyclicals - link) : Chapter 2 On Revelation, Article 3: It is indeed thanks to this divine revelation , that those matters concerning God, which are not of themselves beyond the scope of human reason, can, even in the present state of the human race, be known by everyone, without difficulty, with firm certitude and with no intermingling of error. Here's ...