Skip to main content

Mary Victrix: The Cyrpto-Lefebvrist Dodge (aka The Crypto-Lefebvrist Dodge)

+
JMJ

Setting aside the spelling mistake in the title, I noticed yet another volley in the ongoing war of words between Fr. Greiger and various other people he has labelled as 'cyrpto-lefebvrists'.

I also noticed that he has made some statements that are not supported by references or distort the actual positions of the SSPX.

As a rule I assume that a person is of good-will and not of malicious intent.

This is, after all, the Catholic approach to relations.

So at this point I am assuming that Father Angelo Mary Greiger is simply operating under a confirmation bias, that he may be using to reduce any cognitive dissonance that he is experiencing.

As such when I noticed some of the issues with the post were incorrect, I emailed Fr. Greiger my thought.

As he has not amended the article, I post below a copy of my email.

P^3




Hi Father,
You failed to provide a reference for the following statement:
"... That intention, which he explicitly stated a number of times, was that the work of the Society should serve to weaken the influence of Vatican II.  ..." 
A reference would have been very supporting - especially if it was explicitly stated - as it would also seem to be inconsistent with the statement that the SSPX has the following approach to the council:

"...  This is quite along the lines of the distinctions made by Archbishop Lefebvre to read the Council in the light of Tradition:  what agrees with Tradition, we accept;  what is doubtful, we understand as Tradition has always taught it;  what is opposed, we reject. ..." ( http://www.dici.org/en/news/interview-with-bishop-bernard-fellay-on-relations-with-rome/ )
Likewise, the CNS interview is helpful:
"The pope says that ... the council must be put within the great tradition of the church, must be understood in accordance with it. These are statements we fully agree with, totally, absolutely," the bishop said. "The problem might be in the application, that is: is what happens really in coherence or in harmony with tradition?" ( http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/1201931.htm )

Also, that the SSPX accepts, in this light, 95% of the Council. ( http://tradicat.blogspot.ca/2012/08/a-theologians-questions-john-rt-lamont.html )
Also you statement that the Hermeneutic of Continuity does not allow for "... debat[ing] the merits of the Council,..." seems inconsistent with the CNS report on the doctrinal preamble:

"... but the Vatican said it leaves room for "legitimate discussion" about "individual expressions or formulations present in the documents of the Second Vatican Council and the successive magisterium" of the church. ..."  (http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/1202381.htm)

Perhaps I am operating under my own confirmation bias, but from my perspective you appear to have your own cultural blind spots.

At this point, I am assuming your good-will in this conflict of opinions and I am hoping you will provide corrections as noted above for those elements that contradict your statements.

Be assured of my prayers.

Cordially,

Tradical

Comments

Popular posts from this blog

Becoming Traditional Catholic - Part III Seeing Things for What They Are

+ JMJ An aspect of becoming a TCatholic is realizing that some things that you thought were 'Catholic', really aren't. For example, communion in the hand, not kneeling to receive or during consecration. Don't believe me? Here's an EWTN article on the topic: In the Latin Church, however, kneeling is the sign of adoration for Christ who has just become present on the altar. This came about through the dogmatic development of Eucharistic theology in the West. To go back to the earlier practice in the West would be a sign of devolution of doctrine, and in fact, that is the way the devout faithful perceive efforts to change Latin practice, as a counter-sign of faith. For Eastern Catholics this is not a problem, since they have never inculturated the Latin way of expressing adoration. EWTN - Kneeling at the Consecration Then we get to the topic of apparitions (not unique to nTCatholics).  In this regards we have Bayside, Medjugorje and Fr. Gobbi to name a few....

Becoming Traditional Catholic - Part IV Knowing The Catholic Truth

+ JMJ In my previous post, I discussed seeing things for what they are ... including the actions of Pope's. I know this is a hard pill to swallow, but it is necessary to have an objective measure by which to assess the actions of the Pope - even without a PhD in Theology and Philosophy. The objective measure is the Teaching of the Catholic Church. Hence, it is important to study to know your Faith. For undiluted instruction I recommend Catechism of the Council of Trent and Catechism Explained. This would serve as a foundation for understanding not only the crisis, but also recognizing error when it appears in front of you! Having said this I have two counsels to give: When something you see or hear 'feels' wrong and / or heretical, don't react right away.  Do some research to make certain.  The biggest problem in the last 50+ years, has been Popes that speak out of both sides of their mouthes.  One moment they speak as a 'Catholic', the nex...

Becoming Traditional Catholic Part I

+ JMJ It is a big step from the non-Traditional to Traditional Catholic World. First of all, the Trad world is much smaller, isolated and under siege. This leads to a number of interesting elements that a person making the transition needs to take into account. The Trad World Is Smaller It is a fact that in the states there are about 30,000 Traditional Catholics who support the SSPX and about 3,000 in Canada.  The other Traditionalit orders (FSSP, ICK, etc), I assume, are in the same ball park if not smaller. Let put that in perspective, in my area there are 270,000 non-Traditional Catholics. Consequently, aside from the larger centers,  a Traditional 'Parish' or Mass Centre will be 200 people or less. This has the advantage of being like an extended family and cozy. It has the disadvantage that any crazy 'uncles' in that family will be in plain sight. Be forewarned that any eccentricity that would be drowned in a sea of people in a non-Traditiona...

Becoming Traditional Catholic Part V - Staying Traditional Catholic

+ JMJ My post about seeing things as they are  has drawn a fair amount of attention. A quick recap: Part: Outlined the isolation of Traditional Catholics Most non-cradle Traditional Catholics experienced an transitional moment when they realize that they've been tricked / lied to most of their Catholic lives by Popes, Bishops, Priests, Brothers, Nuns and other Catholics. Seeing things as they are.  For example: The Catholic Charismatic movement is anything but (ie it is really a protestant hook that the naive Catholics have inhaled).  Communion in the Hand (as practiced now - not as practiced in some placed early in the life of the Church) is protestant.  That removing the Filioque from the Creed is Schismatic. ... the list goes on. How to help distinguish the Protestant / Schismatic elements that permeate the 'Modern' Catholic Church from the vestiges of Catholicism. - Study! Now the question is how, once one has found Traditional Catholicism, to r...

Becoming Traditional Catholic Part II

+ JMJ In my last post I discussed some of the differences between the Trad world and ... basically everything else. But that wasn't really about 'becoming Traditional Catholic'. For those who weren't 'born TCatholics' there seems to be a common thread. Something happened the 'opened their eyes' to what happened or was happening.  In some cases it was an intellectual realization, for others it was traumatic ... or a combination thereof. Then there is suffering during the transition. In the case of my family, the trauma started when one of my brothers started having an uneasy feeling about our new parish priest.  He went back to our old parish and ... started asking questions. Questions that upset the parish priest to the extent that my brother was featured (under a pseudonym) in a Sunday sermon. My brother has that quality. Eventually, he realized that there was something before the Novus Ordo Missae ... and found it. This was the...