Various Churches - A Rebuttal 2

JMJ

This talk about the "visible Church" on the part of Dom Gerard and Mr. Madiran is childish. It is incredible that anyone can talk of the "visible Church", meaning the Conciliar Church as opposed to the Catholic Church which we are trying to represent and continue. I am not saying that we are the Catholic Church. I have never said so. No one can reproach me with ever having wished to set myself up as pope. But, we truly represent the Catholic Church such as it was before, because we are continuing what it always did. It is we who have the notes of the visible Church: One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic. That is what makes the visible Church. - Archbishop Lefebvre

This excerpt from a talk given by Archbishop Lefebvre was recently put forward as a justification for rejecting the explanations of Fr. Laisney et al that phrase 'Conciliar church' refers to a movement within the Church.

While people can sit and debate what is the 'Conciliar church', I prefer to identify where is the Catholic Church. Because the 'Conciliar church' is a term that if misapplied will ultimately lead a person into schism. Which is actually the content of the original question that resulted in the answer:

Question: Are you not afraid that in the end, when the good Lord will have called you to Him, little by little the split will grow wider and we will find ourselves being confronted with a parallel Church alongside what some call the "visible Church"?

I am currently writing another article in which I will discuss and review the Catholic Church's response to these questions:

What is the Catholic Church?
Where is the Catholic Church?
Who are its members?
Who are not its members?
What is the Visible Church?

Comments

A Look Back: A short history of the SSPX

+ JMJ I started a timeline a while back but never finished it. Fortunately, here's one that brings us up to 1994!!! P^3 http://archives.sspx.org/SSPX_FAQs/a_short_history_of_the_sspx-part-1.htm A short history of the SSPX A presentation given by Fr. Ramon Angles in Kansas City, MO, on the 25th Anniversary of the founding of the SSPX and reprinted from the January 1996 issue of The Angelus . Part 1 The history of the Society of St. Pius X begins, of course, in the mind of God. But do not believe that its temporal origin is to be found solely at the time of the post-conciliar crisis. The Society of St. Pius X was made possible ...

Hermeneutic of the Hermeneutic of Continuity - sspx.org

+ JMJ Since I'm looking at the 'four things', I thought this article would be good. Unfortunately, with the new SSPX.org website, I've been unable to locate the original article. This is a copy the I emailed to myself. This is an article that, I believe, was written in response to a conference given by Msgr. Pozzo. P^3

SSPX and the Resistance - A Comparison Of Ecclesiology

Shining the light of Church Teaching on the doctrinal positions of the SSPX and the Resistance. Principles are guides used to aid in decision making. It stands to reason that bad principles will lead to bad decisions. The recent interactions between Rome and the SSPX has challenged a number of closely held cultural assumptions of people in both sides of the disagreement. This has resulted in cultural skirmishes in both Rome and the SSPX. Since it is the smaller of the two, the skirmishes have been more evident within the SSPX. The cultural fault-line that Bishop Fellay crossed appears to be linked to two points of Catholic Doctrine: Ecclesiology and Obedience. The cultural difference of view points is strong enough that it has resulted in the expulsion of a number of members. It should also be noted that some other priests expelled since the beginning of the latest interactions (starting in 2000) held the same view points and have joined with the l...

Morning and Evening and other sundry Prayers

+ JMJ Along the theme of P^3 (Prayer, Penance, Patience), and for my own reference ... here is a collection of Morning and Evening prayers from the Ideal Daily Missal along with some additional prayers. In this crisis of the Church, I do not think it is possible to do too much prayer, penance and have patience. P^3

Dogmas of the Catholic Faith (de fide) - Expanded Listing: Answer for Reader

+ JMJ A reader asked the following question in the 2015 version of the article on the Dogmas of the Catholic Faith (link) : 117: "In the state of fallen nature it is morally impossible for man without Supernatural Revelation, to know easily, with absolute certainty and without admixture of error, all religious and moral truths of the natural order." Where can you find this in the documents of the Church? ( Link to comment ) Here's the reference from Ott: The citation that Ott provided was Denzinger 1786 and the source document is Dogmatic Consitution Concerning the Faith from the First Vatican Council (Papal Encyclicals - link) : Chapter 2 On Revelation, Article 3: It is indeed thanks to this divine revelation , that those matters concerning God, which are not of themselves beyond the scope of human reason, can, even in the present state of the human race, be known by everyone, without difficulty, with firm certitude and with no intermingling of error. Here's ...

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