Various Churches - A Rebuttal 2

JMJ

This talk about the "visible Church" on the part of Dom Gerard and Mr. Madiran is childish. It is incredible that anyone can talk of the "visible Church", meaning the Conciliar Church as opposed to the Catholic Church which we are trying to represent and continue. I am not saying that we are the Catholic Church. I have never said so. No one can reproach me with ever having wished to set myself up as pope. But, we truly represent the Catholic Church such as it was before, because we are continuing what it always did. It is we who have the notes of the visible Church: One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic. That is what makes the visible Church. - Archbishop Lefebvre

This excerpt from a talk given by Archbishop Lefebvre was recently put forward as a justification for rejecting the explanations of Fr. Laisney et al that phrase 'Conciliar church' refers to a movement within the Church.

While people can sit and debate what is the 'Conciliar church', I prefer to identify where is the Catholic Church. Because the 'Conciliar church' is a term that if misapplied will ultimately lead a person into schism. Which is actually the content of the original question that resulted in the answer:

Question: Are you not afraid that in the end, when the good Lord will have called you to Him, little by little the split will grow wider and we will find ourselves being confronted with a parallel Church alongside what some call the "visible Church"?

I am currently writing another article in which I will discuss and review the Catholic Church's response to these questions:

What is the Catholic Church?
Where is the Catholic Church?
Who are its members?
Who are not its members?
What is the Visible Church?

Comments

News Roundup: October 19, 2026

+ JMJ Well ... I was looking in my blog drafts and found this list from after my News is an Addiction post. So ... yep ... not totally able to disconnect from the news world at this point. Frankly, I haven't read all of these articles - they catch my eye as I check for SSPX news regarding the exco's etc. So let's consider these topics as part of a higher level chronicle. They may not be key inflection points but helps to understand the flow of the world as perceived by the authors and myself who captured them as a snapshot in time. P^3 1 Popes Past Present and Future Benedict XVI and the Reforms of the Second Vatican Council: Re-Catholicizing the Liturgy—Part I - Adoremus RORATE CÆLI: France: Pope Lays Down the Law on Euthanasia RORATE CÆLI: "I went to France to preach the Gospel -- the Defense of Life is something that the Church believes very deeply" RORATE CÆLI: Image of the Day: the Pope at the Rebuilt Notre-Dame de Paris RORATE CÆLI: Leo XIV and the Place...

The Debt Canadian Traditional Catholics Owe to Fr. Yves Normandin (RIP)

+ JMJ On this All Souls day, I'd like to remind all Traditional Catholics in Canada the debt that they owe to Fr. Yves Normandin (RIP). Fr. Normandin stepped into the breach in the 1970's offering the Tridentine Mass across Canada for close to a decade before returning to his diocese for a number years before returning to the SSPX. I had the grace to visit him in Quebec twice and each time left with a greater appreciation of the fruits of his efforts. All of us 'old-timers' probably remembers Masses in Chapels, Homes, Halls, Funeral Homes, and event convention centres. I make the assertion that this laid the ground for all the Traditional Mass Communities, SSPX, FSSP, Diocesan and others. Probably a pretty safe assertion! In addition to praying for the repose of the Soul of Fr. Normandin, I'd ask you also pray for the repose of the soul of his Mother. I remember seeing her picture once and everyone has a Mom and she is worthy of our prayers for producing such a so...

Morning and Evening and other sundry Prayers

+ JMJ Along the theme of P^3 (Prayer, Penance, Patience), and for my own reference ... here is a collection of Morning and Evening prayers from the Ideal Daily Missal along with some additional prayers. In this crisis of the Church, I do not think it is possible to do too much prayer, penance and have patience. P^3

SSPX: Requiescat in Pace - Nov. Devotions

+ JMJ Recently, the St. Gertrude prayer was recommended to me and given my devotion to the Holy Souls in Purgatory, I thought it a good inclusion in the morning prayers and post it here for as a reminder for November - the Month of the Holy Souls. P^3 Courtesy of SSPX.org “Forget not the dead and hasten to pray for them!” - such is the Church's recommendation, beautifully summarized by St. Augustine. In Purgatory until the End of the World Our Lady Herself referred to Purgatory when, at the first Fatima apparition in May 1917, she was asked by Lucia about the souls of two young village girls who had recently died. The Virgin answered that the first one, Maria das Nevas, who died when about 16 years of age, was in Heaven. But of Amelia, a young lady of 18 years at her death, "will be in purgatory until the end of the world.” The disclosure about Amelia’s prolonged period of expiation never fails to shock and trouble. We are so easily misled to believe that Heaven is our natura...

The News is an Addiction ...

+ JMJ People seem to be mesmerised by train wrecks. They just can't turn away as the disaster creeps forward along train tracks towards the crossing where a car, truck, bus, trailer awaits its destruction. Trads have been watching the train wreck that is this crisis of the Catholic Church for decades. The trade war between the Canada and the US has reminded me that the news is addictive. The first time I was addicted what from 2009 to 2014 when I was closely following the Rome / SSPX discussions. I was at work watching a live-stream as Bishop Fellay disappeared into the Vatican. The lead-up to this moment had been intense as the 'resistance' got freaked out and the cultural cracks between doctrine and conspiracy theory widened. In the decade since then other things have emerged, wars, rumours of wars, conspiracies, celebrity Catholics etc. Now we have a new addiction and its name is Trump. Lately, no matter how much I try, I find myself wonderin...

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