If Only Wishing Made It So!

JMJ

Gary Todd from Xinzheng, China, Public domain, via Wikimedia Commons

I move through a number of different Catholic 'circles'. Conservative Modern Catholic, Diocesan Latin Mass, and SSPX Traditional Catholic,

The sedevacantist issue has popped up once in a while in my 40+ years as a Traditional Catholic.

Pope Francis has, in some ways, become a unifying point. I've had to talk some Modern Catholics off the Sedevacantist ledge because Pope St. John Paul II was the only thread of Catholicism that they knew.

So here's my off the top of my head points vs sedevacantism:

When one stands on the judgment that a current Pope isn't the Vicar of Christ, then what is to stop someone else from making the same judgment on previous Pontiffs?

I know a person who started down that path with Pope B16, and found that Pope JP2 also didn't pass muster. Next fell Pope P12, B15 and so on down the line.
So where does it stop? Well with the people I know, last I heard they were home-aloners who isolated themselves from everyone they had previously known.

That a Pope loses the Papacy is a theological opinion. Not a dogma and not even doctrine.
It is Dogma that the Catholic Church will always have a Vicar of Christ

Decrees of the First Vatican Council (link) Chapter 2 Art 5: if anyone says that it is not by the institution of Christ the lord himself (that is to say, by divine law) that blessed Peter should have perpetual successors in the primacy over the whole church; or that the Roman pontiff is not the successor of blessed Peter in this primacy: let him be anathema.

The Pope is one half of the Dogma of the Visibility of the Catholic Church.

So without a Pope the Visibility of the Church is affected,
Consequently, to have a sedevacante for decades prompts the question of how can the Catholic Church exist for such a long duration without a core element of its visibility?

It is a Dogmatic Fact that the acceptance of a recently elected Pope means that there were no barriers or impediments to Pope Francis' elevation to the Pontificate of the Catholic Church (i.e. he is the Vicar of Christ). He is simply the latest in a long list of bad or mediocre Popes that started with Pope St. John XXIII.

So, as a Catholic, in order to not contravene a dogma or doctrine of the Catholic Church we must affirm the following:

That there will be perceptual successors in the primacy over the whole church until the end of the world. (Dogma)
The Catholic Church as a moral agreement (Bishops or Bishops + Faithful) accepted Pope Francis and those before him as Popes. Therefore they were licitly elected and served as the Vicar of Christ. (Dogmatic Fact)
The prolonged absence of a Vicar of Christ impacts the Visibility of the Catholic Church - i.e. one of the Four Marks (Dogma)

Sedevacantists offer up various arguments such as the Vicar of Christ is supposed to be the 'rule of faith' - without explaining the extents of this etc and continue to hold up a lessor doctrine or worse theory to contradict Dogmas or Doctrines of higher authority.

By their logic, there is no 'middle ground'. The Pope and V2 are either right ... or Pope Francis isn't the Pope and the Catholic Church has failed.

Whereas there is a third alternative ... that described as Recognize and Resist. Following the Catechism of the Council of Trent and other teachings - we stand ready to obey legitimate commands of the Vicar of Christ.

P^3

Church Teaching Vs SedeVacantism: Re Blog: Yes Sally, Pope Francis IS the Pope and is in great need of our prayers!; Tradicat - Sedevacantism; Tradicat - Dogmatic Facts; Sedevacantism and Heresy; Sedevacantism Kill Chain - True of False Pope; Everything You wanted to know the Infallibility of the Catholic Church but were afraid to ask about - Part 1; Everything You wanted to know the Infallibility of the Catholic Church but were afraid to ask about - Part 9; Dogmatic Fact or Fancy; Dogmatic Fact or Fancy II; Dogmatic Fact or Fancy III; Decrees of the First Vatican Council - Papal Encyclicals

The Catholic Church and the Rule of Law- Part II: Dr. John Lamont

+ JMJ This is the second article from Dr. Lamont from his lecture given in May 2014. P^3 Source Part A: Society of St. Hugh of Cluny Source Part B: Society of St. Hugh of Cluny 8 May2014 The Catholic Church and the Rule of Law- Part II By John Lamont To understand how the Jesuit conception of obedience departed from earlier conceptions, it is helpful to compare it with the teaching of St. Thomas on obedience. The fundamental difference between the two is that St. Thomas considers the proper object of obedience to be the precept of the superior (2a2ae q. 104 a. 2 co., ad 3). Obedience that seeks to forestall the expressed will of the superior does not bear on what the superior wants or thinks in general, but only on what the superior intends to command. St. Ignatius’s lowest degree of obedience, which he does not consider to be virtuous, is thus what St. Thomas considers to be the only form of obedience. St. Thomas holds that St. Ignatius’s alleged higher forms of o...

Open Letter to Cardinal Gantin - July 6, 1988

There has been some discussion (read lots) about the term 'Conciliar Church'. I have posted this letter written by the Superior General and District Superiors of the SSPX after the 1988 Consecrations. Of particular interest is that the 'Conciliar Church' being referred to as a system. My paraphrase would be that the SSPX regards the 'conciliar Church' as an error within the Church. Source Open Letter to Cardinal Gantin Prefect of the Congregation for Bishops

Morning and Evening and other sundry Prayers

+ JMJ Along the theme of P^3 (Prayer, Penance, Patience), and for my own reference ... here is a collection of Morning and Evening prayers from the Ideal Daily Missal along with some additional prayers. In this crisis of the Church, I do not think it is possible to do too much prayer, penance and have patience. P^3

Rome and the SSPX - Version 2026 Part 6b: Principles and Rules for Surviving this Crisis of the Catholic Church (Principle 1)

+ JMJ Principle 1: Realize that something is amiss in the Catholic Church The world in which I had my Traditional Awakening, is one in which practically anything pre-Conciliar such as liturgy, doctrinc, and even dogmas are either suppressed, ignored or re-framed to be acceptable to the ‘world’. What is more, the people adhering to these pre-conciliar teachings and liturgy are persecuted by other members of the Catholic Church. The things that non-Trads say about Trads can be quite extreme. For example, accusations against Traditionalists include that they are: A revival of the Jansenists (link) , Schismatics, Heretics, Uncharitable, Lefebrists Radicals Integrists When one group of Catholics is persecuted by the others for simply wanting to live as Catholics before them did for generations … well something is wrong. Further, we need to realize that when what was previously condemned is now promoted and what was previously promoted as the trut...

Forget the Reformation - It is time for Abrogation - Louie Verrecchio

Mr. Verrecchio has pointed out one solution to this crisis that is a dream of many Traditional Catholics of my acquaintance: The complete obliteration of the Novus Ordo Missae. If this were to occur, undoubtedly a revolt would occur within the Church, but the battle lines would be much clearer. I assume that a lot of material heretics would make the transition to being formal heretics. P^3 Prayer Penance Patience Courtesy of Louie Verrecchio A recent article by Fr. Thomas Kocik on the New Liturgical Movement website, Reforming the Irreformable? , is getting some well-deserved attention in traditional circles. (Do yourself a favor and read it in its entirety if you haven’t already.)

Tradicat

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