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Re Blog: Yes Sally, Pope Francis IS the Pope and is in great need of our prayers!

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JMJ

Reblog of posts originally posted:

As a Traditional Catholic I find it ironic that I'm usually the one talking Modern Catholics off the sedevacantist ledge.

Recently, Louie Verrecchio has posted an article by a Fr. Campo, that is asserting that the abdication was forced and therefore invalid ... of something to that effect.

Sadly, the electrons spilled over this issue are in vain.

Here's a quick summary of the doctrine on Dogmatic Facts:


Now the point is this:
We want to believe that Pope Francis is not the Pope, because he is doing such a bad job.

However, we know that he is because of the doctrine of dogmatic facts.

Any action that we 'believe' that would invalidate the election is proved wrong by the acceptance of a newly elected Pope by all the Bishops and by extension the whole Catholic Church.

Pope Francis was accepted by the Bishops in Union with Rome, ergo - we have the assurance of the doctrine that he was validly elected.



P^3

PS.Now if the Church should determine that Pope Francis was invalidly elected, they will have to amend the doctrine of Dogmatic Facts as it pertains to the election of a Pope.

But until that hypothetical even occurs - we have the rely upon the present document.



Re Blogged  from Tradicat

The Church of Christ is Apostolic and this is also a 'Mark' of the Church.

Specifically it means: 
The true Church is also to be recognised from her origin, which can be traced back under the law of grace to the Apostles; for her doctrine is the truth not recently given, nor now first heard of, but delivered of old by the Apostles, and disseminated throughout the entire world. ... That all, therefore, might know which was the Catholic Church, the Fathers, guided by the Spirit of God, added to the Creed the word Apostolic. For the Holy Ghost, who presides over the Church, governs her by no other ministers than those of Apostolic succession.  (Tradicat: Marks of the Church Apostolic - Catechism of Trent)

The consequence of this is Dogma is that if there are no longer any Bishops, then the promise of Our Lord Jesus Christ that the Church would stand to the end of the world, was false. A secondary consequence of this would be the eradication of the priesthood.  Closely related to this Dogma is that defined during the First Vatican Council. Namely, that there will be successors of St. Peter until the end of the world.



The Church in Her wisdom has taken safeguards to ensure that the Apostolic Succession is not lost, specifically by normally having three bishops perform the consecration of a new bishop.  Having a consecrator and two co-consecrators ensures that if there is a defect in one, then the other two will supply.

This question is sometimes raised regarding the validity of Archbishop Lefebvre's own episcopal consecration as there were rumours that Cardinal Leinart was a free mason.

The first response is that there were no doubts of the co-consecrators. The second is that the rumours have never been proved. Lastly, the form was followed in the consecration and therefore, barring any authoritative investigation, the principle of the Church is to assume that when the form is followed the sacrament is conveyed.

A similar question is raised concerning Pope St. John XXIII and Pope Paul VI: If they were masons, then they weren't Pope etc.

This question is answered if one adheres to the doctrine (lower case) of the Church on this matter.

Specifically, it is a universally held theological conclusion that if the Bishops of the Church accept a newly elected Bishop as the Pope, then any perceived impediments were not real.  This is classified as an infallible dogmatic fact ( Dogmatic Fact or Fancy ).

Caveat, the sede-vacantists that I have encountered throw up lots of excuses to re-imagine this simple doctrine.  So if you cast about the internet you will find opinions that run counter to this doctrine. However, I would advise you to take the words of the Church as the Church has understood them and expressed by the theologians of the Church in a consistent and universal manner.
P^3

 Reply to TuNe

I have  copied a TuNe's comment here to make it easier to reply...

The simple answer is that we have a dogmatic fact that gives us surety that, sadly, Pope Francis is indeed the Vicar of Christ. 

All the theories about either his heresy causing the loss of the Pontificate or the defect due to Benedict's resignation are just that theories. Until the Church reviews this slews of messy Popes - we have to stick with that Doctrine as established.  

TuNe:

  • “ We want to believe that Pope Francis is not the Pope, because he is doing such a bad job.”.
  • A firm no.
  • Yes Bergoglio is a raving heretic, I doubt he truly holds Catholic core values, but it was clear from the very resignation of Benedict that he attempted to do something “
  • Gansweins speech at the Greg confirms this resignation was an attempt to split the papacy, something that Benedict himself wrote about in 1979.
  • https://aleteia.org/2016/05/30/complete-english-text-archbishop-georg-gansweins-expanded-petrine-office-speech/
  • Gas Weinmann states: “Since February 2013 the papal ministry is therefore no longer what it was before.”
  • “Benedict XVI has profoundly and permanently transformed during his exceptional pontificate”
  • Please understand that a Vicar has no power to transform the office of a King…. I think Catholics have forgotten what is the Holy See at its core.
  • Ganswein states: “Since then, we live in an historic era which in the 2,000-year history of the Church is without precedent.”
  • He further states “ Since February 2013 the papal ministry is therefore no longer what it was before. ”
  • If this is true, then what all think is just a resignation as others have done in the past is not correct.
  • Just wow! Modernism…. Pius Pascendi warned us of innovation, but we are asleep, hypnotized by the latest new thing, and not able to see the falseness in our noses.
  • Benedict’s resignation needs to be reviewed by Inquisition where I am certain they will find it was substantially errored…
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Comments

  1. TuNeCedeMalisPJSOctober 14, 2023 at 6:43 AM

    “ We want to believe that Pope Francis is not the Pope, because he is doing such a bad job.”.
    A firm no.
    Yes Bergoglio is a raving heretic, I doubt he truly holds Catholic core values, but it was clear from the very resignation of Benedict that he attempted to do something “
    Gansweins speech at the Greg confirms this resignation was an attempt to split the papacy, something that Benedict himself wrote about in 1979.
    https://aleteia.org/2016/05/30/complete-english-text-archbishop-georg-gansweins-expanded-petrine-office-speech/
    Gas Weinmann states: “Since February 2013 the papal ministry is therefore no longer what it was before.”
    “Benedict XVI has profoundly and permanently transformed during his exceptional pontificate”
    Please understand that a Vicar has no power to transform the office of a King…. I think Catholics have forgotten what is the Holy See at its core.
    Ganswein states: “Since then, we live in an historic era which in the 2,000-year history of the Church is without precedent.”
    He further states “ Since February 2013 the papal ministry is therefore no longer what it was before. ”
    If this is true, then what all think is just a resignation as others have done in the past is not correct.
    Just wow! Modernism…. Pius Pascendi warned us of innovation, but we are asleep, hypnotized by the latest new thing, and not able to see the falseness in our noses.
    Benedict’s resignation needs to be reviewed by Inquisition where I am certain they will find it was substantially errored…




    ReplyDelete

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