Skip to main content

Fruits of Vatican II - The New Mass Part 7- A Priest's impression of the Tridentine Mass (spoiler: He didn't like it ...)

+
JMJ


In 2012, Fr. Peter Schineller attended a Tridentine Mass and ended his report with the following:

One thing I know: I myself will never freely choose to celebrate the Tridentine Mass.



What I found interesting is the effect it had on Fr.

During the celebration I felt very uncomfortable. It was strange and foreign. Even though I was very familiar with the Tridentine Mass from my childhood, it seemed remote and distant. The Mass seemed to focus on the priest whose words for the most part could not be heard (they were in Latin anyway!) and who rarely faced the people. The choir performed well and their singing overrode the priest, who had to wait several times until they finished singing.
Obviously, the fact that the Mass focuses on the priest is, following Catholic Theology, a good thing.  He is after all, acting as priest offering the sacrifice.  Then he proceeds to contradict himself by stating that 'the choir ... overrode the priest'. 

As a Cantor, I can at least set your mind at rest. We have rules and guidelines and we are participating in the liturgy in a manner that Father appears unaware. As laity we are allowed to since elements of the Liturgy. Naturally the sung word takes longer than the spoken word, therefore necessitating that the Celebrant sometimes either waits for us to catchup or sits down.  Yet, all the while participating the liturgy as when we sing certain elements the priest bows. 
In my mind I could not but think back to the Second Vatican Council, and all that the Council and subsequent documents tried to bring about – active participation, emphasis on the important things, vernacular, elimination of accretions and repetitions, etc. It was sad and disheartening. What happened? Why would the Catholic faithful seek out and attend this older form of the Mass? Is the Tridentine Mass an aberration? What does it say about the reforms of Vatican II?
I find 'emphasis on the important things' particularly telling. I mean seriously, what is more important than the Sacrifice of the Mass?
After the Mass, I was tempted to talk with some of those present. But I decided not to as I feared I would have been negative and perhaps controversial. My feelings were still very raw.Source: America Magazine

My assessment of Father is that his is experiencing the Tridentine Mass from his cultural perspective or perhaps from that of a child as his familiarity is from his childhood.  His lack of comprehension of the elements of a fully integrated liturgy is understandable and regrettable.

With respect to the '... venacular, ... accretions and repetitions', I wish someone would explain why  repeating the glories of God, our state as sinners etc is a bad thing.

I would also like to know what were the accretions that were present in the Tridentine Mass as it was essentially the same as that codified by Pope Pius V.

The final proof that this was a cultural perspective that coloured Fathers impression is in the question he asks in the second paragrah.

Having attending the Tridentine Mass for 35 years, I can answer Father's questions:

  • What happened? 
    • A crisis erupted in the Church.
  • Why would the Catholic faithful seek out and attend this older form of the Mass?
    • Because it reflects everything that a Catholic Liturgy should!
  • Is the Tridentine Mass an aberration?
    • No, the Tridentine Mass is Catholic, it is the Novus Ordo Missae that is the aberration.
  • What does it say about the reforms of Vatican II?
    • They were not a reformation (return a previous pristine state removing accretions etc) but a deformation of Catholic Liturgy to reflect a deformed heretical theology.

Pray for Father Schineller and Catholics like him, they no longer recognise the Tridentine Mass as a Catholic Liturgy and worse: They are unable to recognize the Novus Ordo Missae as a protestantized Liturgy.

P^3




Comments

Popular posts from this blog

Is it sinful to attend the Novus Ordo (New Mass) - Is it Sinful to Not Attend the Novus Ordo on Sunday?

+ JMJ A non-SSPX Catholic is upset over the SSPX statements on not attending the Novus Ordo Missae. Ladies and gentlemen, what the SSPX, or at least its website editor, is advocating is a mortal sin against the Third Commandment.  Unless the priest deviates from the language of the Sacramentary, the consecration, and thus the rest of Mass is to be considered valid.  No one may elect not to attend Mass simply because abuses are occurring therein.  Might I suggest that such absenteeism is its own abuse?  The Third Commandment binds under mortal sin.  Father So-And-So from the SSPX has no authority whatsoever to excuse attendance at Mass, be that Mass ever so unpalatable. Source:Restore DC Catholicism Well, this is interesting. First why does the SSPX issue this statement? Because it is sinful to put your faith in danger by attending a protestant service.  It is likewise dangerous to put your faith in danger by attending a protestantized mass (ie the Novus Ordo Missae

Morning and Evening and other sundry Prayers

+ JMJ Along the theme of P^3 (Prayer, Penance, Patience), and for my own reference ... here is a collection of Morning and Evening prayers from the Ideal Daily Missal along with some additional prayers. In this crisis of the Church, I do not think it is possible to do too much prayer, penance and have patience. P^3

Regarding Post: Fr. Joseph Pfeiffer no longer ... now Bishop Joseph Pfeiffer (Can't see this being a problem...)

 + JMJ   I've been watching the popularity of the post about Fr. Pfeiffer's attempted episcopal consecration and its continued top listing on the 'popular posts' list at the bottom of posts.  After some thought, I decided that I don't want to be responsible for anyone joining Fr. Pfeiffer's 'group', however unlikely that would be at this time. So I have reverted the article to the draft state. If anyone wants it reinstated, I would ask that they comment on this post with a rationale for reinstatement. P^3

The Vatican and SSPX – An Organizational Culture Perspective

Introduction The recent and continuing interactions between the Vatican and the SSPX have been a great opportunity for prayer and reflection.  The basis for the disagreement is theological and not liturgical. As noted by Dr. Lamont (2012), the SSPX theological position on the four key controversial aspects of the Second Vatican Council are base on prior theological work that resulted from relevant magisterial pronouncements.  So it is difficult to understand the apparent rejection of the theological position of the SSPX.

Fr. Burfitt on Fr. Pfeiffer's Attempted Consecration

 + JMJ   Amidst the shadows cast by the publication of Traditionis Custodes, I am working on a map of the 'resistance' splinters to put their reaction in contrast with that of the SSPX.  In the midst of this, I just came across Fr. Burfitt letter on the attempted consecration. Breaking it down (see below)  items 2 and 3 are key.  Just as the consecrating bishop is 'doubtful', even if he hadn't muffed the first attempt, Fr. Pfeiffer remain doubtful and therefore this impacts those men is attempts to 'ordain'. There were rumours that Fr. Pfeiffer was seeking episcopal consecration for years as he cast about for various bishops (also doubtful) to help him achieve this goal. I wonder how he convinced the 'doubtful' bishop to provide (twice) the doubtful consecration. What a mess!  This creates a danger to the souls of his followers and wonder where it will end. Will he go full sede and have himself 'elected' pontiff as others have done before him